[-empyre-] Belated goodbye and thanks

Sorry for dropping off line for a few days, on the road again and busy
beyond my capacities.
Thanks to you all, I very much enjoyed the comments, dialogues, and
critiques.  I will be doing a bit of rethinking about my "manifesto", as our
conversations have questioned and confirmed some of my intentions and
assumptions with the piece.

Thanks for hearing me out in empyeria!!

PS if anyone is going to be at ArtSci in NYC this weekend, I will be there,
lets get together!

-----Original Message-----
From: empyre-admin@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
[mailto:empyre-admin@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au]On Behalf Of parrishka
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:30 AM
To: empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
Subject: Re: [-empyre-] the use in girls coming

Hi Christiano,

thank you for this reply.
i've nothing against the expression of informed strong opinions-
but i'm not overly fond of dismissive remarks that precede an
attentive, careful reading of a work.

i wonder how it is that you could develop such an immediate assessment
of julianne's work from just one post? i myself have some critical
concerns regarding her approach, but i was going to ask a few more
questions before i formulated anything like a  conclusion.

On Thursday, December 5, 2002, at 10:22  AM, Cristiano Bianchi wrote:

> Hi Katherine,
> I'm a guest here as well, simply expressing an
> opinion. A rather strong one, if you like, but then
> it's not the the Cyberfeminist Manifest goes down that
> light either.
> It's not hostility per se, the reason of my message. I
> thought I could express an opinion and I found deeply
> irritating what I the misuse of feminism of the
> cyberfeminist post.

> Now, while I understand the reason, motivation and
> complexity of the feminist movement elsewhere, as a
> rection to a (still) male dominated world,

i'm sorry, christiano, but nothing you've posted so far  (these last
two) leads me to believe that you understand the reasons for or
complexities of feminism in cyberspace.  (for example, to characterize
feminism as merely a reaction to mysogyny is itself a problemmatic
definition. ) i'm not sure you're in a position to judge the "misuse of
feminism." i wouldn't say i'm in such a position either. again, this
postulates that there is one feminism and one way to go about it.

> I do
> believe that such a movement is rather pointless in
> the digital environemt, where you have exactly the
> same rights, whether man or women. I cannot accept or
> believe that someone is fighting against a male
> dominated cyberspace (whatever that means) within the
> most egalitarian and democratic medium ever. Where as
> a woman you can do exactly the same things as men and
> not only. As a women you can pretend to be a man. And
> viceversa.

there has been about 15 years of writing (and not just by
cyberfeminists) to contradict your assertions here.
the internet is far from egalitarian. we don't leave behind our
politics or our gendered ways of looking at the world when we construct
and participate in cyberspace.
and cyberfeminism is not just concerned with combatting inequality.
can you and i agree this much that our experiences of the physical
world are different because of our experiences of it as a woman and as
a man?
much cyberfeminist literature is concerned with how these gendered and
sexualized experiences of the world inform our understanding of and
behaviour in cyberspace.
i actually turned to feminist theory in the first place *because* of my
experiences in cyberpace- it was only there that i found a language
that could adequately express the nature of authorship in cybertext.

i would urge you to reconsider whether you do really understand what
cyberfeminism is on about before you dismiss the project out of hand.
let's have critique, by all means. but informed critique.


> So sorry for interrupting your daily activities, and
> forcing you to come back on this :-), but I felt the
> same as you regarding the first post. Together with
> the strong temptation to start a cyber-male chauvinist
> movement as well, just to be even ;-) Of course I'm
> joking, just in case this is misinterpreted as well.
> I'm still convinced we need better ideas.
> Best regards,
> Cristiano
>  --- parrishka <parrishka@sympatico.ca> wrote: >
>> though i've been subscribed since May, i haven't
>> always paid the
>> strictest attention to the empyre posts because
>> they've usually been so
>> compelling & thought-provoking that they would
>> distract me from the
>> rest of my tasks for the day.
>> so my knowledge of this list's behaviour is not
>> completely reliable,
>> but i cannot recall ever seeing such immediate
>> hostility towards a
>> guest here.
>> you know what i find boring? having to dissuade
>> myself repeatedly from
>> coming to the conclusion that these kinds of attacks
>> and/or dismissive
>> gestures are manifestations of a masculinist fear.
>> it feels too easy,
>> and i like to think better of my fellow men.
>> juliane, i look very much forward to hearing what
>> you have to say.
>> cyberfeminism is just as complex and fractious a
>> subject as feminism,
>> there are many feminisms, and many cyberfeminisms,
>> and i still am
>> hopeful that we can explore these issues in the
>> intelligent,
>> thoughtful, expansive, critical manner that has
>> characterized the
>> discussions here in the past.
>> katherine parrish
>> http://www.meadow4.com/squish
>> _______________________________________________
>> empyre forum
>> empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
>> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
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