Re: [-empyre-] Women in Art, and Technology

Well Isabel,

I am always speaking about our times and things I have been observing
nowadays or at the end of last decade. My experience with boys and girls was
only with computers. I am sure that some of those girls were brilliant in
maths, for example. I am not saying that women are inferior, do not forget
that I wrote a dissertation about women, I only said that the boys I
observed were better than girls with computers. However, every day I receive
a link to a good work done by woman...

I am not speaking about my own experience, because as every woman of my age
I had a very traditional education, but I think that it is past . Things
change and here in Brazil, I am sure that boys and girls have much more
freedon of choice that I had.

I finish my previous email saying:  "I think that in the past Beauvoir
(Simone de) and others's texts were very important to
woman (including me) , but  nowadays I really do not know ..."
Do you understand that this "nowadays I really do not know" was a reference
to new texts focusing only women and not the old texts, which I think were
very important to all the things women get ? Perhaps I have not been clear.

I would like to add that I do not think that we do not have to write texts
or books about women, what I think is that is the right time to think about
human beings and not only about women. Feminism is really a litle bit old
for me.

We need of being two...
so that the wheat will be hight

or as Jim have said I would like to see books and texts showing works of
good artists, books joining together excellent  artists of both genders. It
is a way to show that in spite of being different, man and woman are able to
do excellent work, so excellent that can be shown together.



----- Original Message -----
From: "isabel saij" <>
To: "soft_skinned_space" <>
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [-empyre-] Women in Art, and Technology

> There are several elements in your question Regina :
> -my personal story
> -the relation mother/daughter as described by Barrie
> -the current situation for girls wanting to study in a technical field
> In my story, no question of permission : my mother decided for me (I was
> 14/15) that I would be afraid of the boys (!!??) during the technical and
> mechanical workshops (10 hours of practice weekly) + 30 hours general
> studies (a lot of maths = 40 hours weekly).
> With this strange argument I was sent to scientifical studies and then to
> literature and philosophy. Note : I was never afraid of my father and
> brother.
> Other remarks :
> technical studies didn't come as an option for my brother, because he
> didn't have the ability.
> Was my education so typical ? I never played with dolls (had bakelite
> dolls any sensuality ? not at all compared with teddy bears) but
> my young sister did play with dolls.
> Sometimes I cut their hairs and gave them a bath, just to see...
> how they swam or not !
> To play with toy cars (with suspension) was much more attractive !
> Even my grandmother -very strict and conservative- understood that
> dolls were definitively nothing for me, and she bought me toy cars
> every thursday...
> I read with interest what Barrie wrote. It's obviously a family
> where children are loved and encouraged in their development
> without regard of gender. That's great !
> A key point is the relation parent/children. A child is loved
> or not. In my case my best enemy is my mother.
> And my father never understood the situation, he was weak
> and unconcerned.
> What is the situation for girls nowadays ? I don't know.
> My impression is that the situation is better.
> I would appreciate to get reactions/information/studies
> on that point.
> The last question is to know if a book/discussion about
> women and technology is useful.
> I think it is. Some women showed the way : Marie Curie as
> a scientist (don't forget she was a foreigner in France)
> Simone de Beauvoir as a writer,... Recently on "Arte"
> (french/german TV broadcaster with a cultural content)
> Alice Schwarzer (german feminist) said that what girls and young women
> now can do, is related to actions of some women in the past.
> If I can make a parallel : to speak about racism, fascism,
> shoah,... is always necessary. The danger of forgetting
> is huge and the repetition of history possible.
> Isabel
> > Barrie wrote:
> >
> > I know that maybe this month's discussion is not about differences
> > gender but about examining Women in Art, and Technology...
> >
> > Well Barrie, for me, if it had not differences between the two genders,
> > there was not a book called "Women, Art, and Technology". So, your
> > contribution to the discussion is completely valid. It was just what
> > Saij done, when she wrote about the education of the girls.
> >
> > Isabel, do you think that nowadays, if a girl want to follow technollogy
> > studies, she will not receive the permission from her mother? ... I
> > do not know. On the other hand, I worked during sometime as a
coordenator of
> > an info room of a high school . What I discovered there is that boys are
> > much more interested in computers than girls. They received always the
> > stimulus to do a work, but the boys are always much more interested and
> > always got the best works and sometimes keep on studying and searching
> > information about the proposal even when the work was finished. What I
> > really do not know is if this difference occurs because girls and boys
> > really differents or because the education of girls and boys valorizes
> > different things. I bet that the differences of education are changing
> > there are centuries where the standards of education only allow the
> > of the machine to men.
> > Perhaps is because of this that Jim asked: "Anything in the book about
> > different levels of fear, or different attitudes
> > about/toward fear of technology associated with gender?"
> > About links to the book, Last month I searched for them, but I only got
> > one (amazon), below, the link and the text we find there.
> >
> >
> >
> > 1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-4888030-1867239?v=glance&s=books&vi=reviews
> >
> >
> > Book Info
> > Text is a compendium of the work of women artists who have played a
> > role in the development of new media practice. Includes overviews of the
> > history and foundations of the field, classic papers by women working in
> > and technology, and a series of critical essays looking to the future.
> > Illustrated. DLC: Art and technology--History--20th century.
> >
> > About the Author
> > Judy Malloy is an electronic fiction and Internet pioneer and editor of
> > electronic publication Arts Wire Current.
> >
> > Book Description
> >
> > Although women have been at the forefront of art and technology
creation, no
> > source has adequately documented their core contributions to the field.
> > which originated in a Leonardo journal project of the same name, is a
> > compendium of the work of women artists who have played a central role
> > the development of new media practice. The book includes overviews of
> > history and foundations of the field by, among others, artists Sheila
> > and Kathy Brew; classic papers by women working in art and technology;
> > papers written expressly for this book by women whose work is currently
> > shaping and reshaping the field; and a series of critical essays that
> > to the future. Artist contributors include computer graphics artists
> > Allen and Donna Cox; video artists Dara Birnbaum, Joan Jonas, Valerie
> > and Steina Vasulka; composers Cecile Le Prado, Pauline Oliveros, and
> > Z; interactive artists Jennifer Hall and Blyth Hazen, Agnes Heged?nn
> > Hershman, and Sonya Rapoport; virtual reality artists Char Davies and
> > Laurel; net artists Anna Couey, Monika Fleischmann and Wolfgang Strauss,
> > Nancy Paterson, and Sandy Stone; and choreographer Dawn Stoppiello.
> > include Margaret Morse, Jaishree Odin, Patric Prince, and Zoe Sofia.
> >
> > You will find this text (november news) also at,
> > click first floor, books, letter M. You will realize that diferently
> > other books there, this book has not a catalog record, but only the text
> > above. It occurs, because to buy a book from Amazon, here in Rio de
> > means a long time of waiting or lots of money to get the fast delivery.
> > make things worse, when the book arrives, as it is writing in English, I
> > will need the triple of the time you need to read the book...
> >
> > My today question is:
> >
> > "Will not be a kind of discrimination against women to write books or
> > where the focus is only this gender?"
> >
> > I have thought a lot about this lately, perhaps we that wrote recently
> > write now about women are doing just the opposite that we intended or
> > to do. I hope you can understand me. Why have we the necessity to show
> > woman can work in this or that field? What are we intending to prove?
> > masculine gender do not have this necessity at all.
> > I think that in the past Beauvoir and others's texts were very important
> > woman , but  nowadays I really do not know ...
> >
> > Yours,
> >
> > Regina
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > empyre forum
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> empyre forum

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