RE: [-empyre-] platonic forms..

> > You create a metaphysical space rather than a poor imitation of a physical
> one, yes? This is
>  yes.. thankyou for putting it that way

Seemed to be relevant. 'Metaphysical' not necessarily with all the trimmings, though one can
heap them on. Just 'not primarily physical'.

I once read 'metaphysics' described as the search for a priori truths, or the discourse
concerned with a priori truths. In which case metaphysics would seem to be more or less over.
But it has a beautiful history, in some ways, like the soul, like Ur and the Empyrean, and even
now we perhaps necessarily vascillate between Platonism/Idealism and Nominalism, given the
inherant supposition in language itself of the existence of ideal forms, like a chair, even. A
class of things. But the chair in our mind exists not so much as an abstract class composed of
numerous things as a single thing, a form if, for no other reason, then for the sake of
simplicity and ease of thinking rather than moving all those big classes around, the set of all
chairs, saves not needing a whole hall each time we think about it. And taking them out,
stacking them back. It makes me tired just to think about it.

> > Or, in the work of Plato, say, Ur, the realm of the forms, possibly? In
> The Timaeus by Plato, Ur
> > is the realm of the forms, of 'the good' and, also, since Plato was a
> Pythagorean, the
> > mathematical forms.
> pardon my ignorance in this area but i have i managed to get this far and
> know nothing of plato...

That reminds me of something Helen wrote in commenting on my (other) mistaken guess at Durieu's
pseudo-3D piece in Paris Connection...which reminds me that I am again postulating Platonic
references where none exist. Ah, well it's all a Pythagorean conspiracy anyway (just kidding).

> i dont know about  UR.. the realms of the forms..? is that teh same as the
> realm of the ideal?


> i have coincidenly just been trying to read book 10 of
> the Republic  on the effects of art and drama on society..the bit where
> someone says..Socartes?

Yup. And/or Plato. Of course there was also a 'competition' going on at the time between
philosophy and poetry as claimants to superior ways of knowing. Though Plato/Socrates also
described poetry elsewhere as "a dream for awakened minds". And at the height of the argument in
some of Plato's work he introduces myth and storytelling. Like in the Meno. Because we are
eventually confronted with mystery and can only appreciate its presence and role in our destiny.

> that  drama should be banned from the republic as
> it confuses the masses and induced dangerous emotional states..
> i have been equating virtual reality as we produce it with drama and poetry,
> ie as that mimesis,  twice removed from the ideal and good of pure thoughts
> and ideas, which then gets all that platonic morality attached to it..

Yes, those darn poets. Or was he thinking of poemy poems? Just kidding, poets!

>  but  are you saying VR exists in the realm of thought, intellect and
> mathematics.. ratehr than as an artistic practice//

Not "rather than". Both.

But "exists" in what sense? Mostly it refers to realms, perhaps, rather than 'exists in' them?
Not sure. And the realms to which it refers are both physical and metaphysical.

> and does that mean that
> all software produced the whole net , is of this higer form.. or
> it exists in different realms according to its conceptual  intent?

I don't think I understand the question.

> > I was really struck with the piece in which the past, present, and future
> are represented as an
> > entity or shape that one can navigate around and through, and these three
> "breathe as one".
> i think i appropriated that concept or something similar from startrek
> voyager... amazing where poetry and profundity occurs.
> melinda

ha. cheater.

but yes, it is amazing, isn't it.


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