[-empyre-] Re: empyre - what is it all good for?

Hi John, 

Thanks for getting back.

I surely don't question the need for art and in particular for digital and
for 3D art. After all I am an artist myself. But as an artist I feel kind of
frustrated not to be able to access various works, due to technical and
financial limitations in equipment. I would love to experience all those
'big landscapes', but right now I just can't.

When discussions on a platform like empyre get to technical and to specific
I tend to get tired. But it's all a question of bringing new subject matters
to talk about. A good mailing list is in some ways like an organic thing,
feed by it's members. You are right that self-promotion is kind of obsolete
on a mailing list like empyre. Idea-promotion is the alternative option
here. I sure like that.

>so, what do you think? what is art good for? what is this medium good
>for? or do you want to know how to render more angels? we can talk about
>that too.

So many possible answers. No, I don't need to render more angels, but I
believe that creating ones own world and vision is a good step towards good
art. Never mind the tools/media you are using in order to get there. I'm in
love with digital, in particular with the web. The web has been always good
to me. 

>whats yer url?


It's technically simple, though it has it's technical limitations, too. I
would like to do something technically more complex one day, but for now I
feel okay with making the most out of the things I know and the tools I

I will think about the questions I want to feed to this mailing list. I'm a
good cook.

more soon, truly, +roya.

On 6/8/03 10:05 PM, "empyre-request@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au"
<empyre-request@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au> wrote:

> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 15:21:45 -0400
> From: John Klima <klima@echonyc.com>
> Subject: Re: [-empyre-] empyre - what is it all good for?
> To: soft_skinned_space <empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
> Message-ID: <3EE38CC9.875133B4@echonyc.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> hi roya +,
> thanks for speaking up, i often need reminding that not everyone in the
> universe cares about the differences in mine and simon's world views
> (though i do think alot of people enjoy watching us slug it out :).
> to answer your specific question, you also have to answer: what is art
> good for in the first place. if the medium of 3d engenders questions of
> world view, point of view, models and modes of being, then i think its
> good for an awful lot.
> something i frequently find when presenting work to a broader audience
> is the reaction that its "all about the tech." if that were truly so, we
> would be here engaged in a discussion about how to better render water
> droplets, and techniques to get more angels dancing on the heads of
> pins, hehe (though a pragmatist, i truly love that debate simon).
> what we all love about this medium is precisely that it *does* raise
> many many questions that have little to do with its implementation. that
> is what all good art does, from cave paintings to CAVE environments.
> what is great about this particular discussion format is that we are
> all, more or less, equally familiar with the tech and do not need to
> explain a vector or a matrix or an equation prior to discussing what
> results from their usage.  most lay audiences don't understand the
> fundamental difference between an image constructed in photoshop and an
> image constructed in a 3d package. the fundamental difference between
> the two is precisely why i don't work in photoshop. if you were hoping
> more for a discussion along those lines, i'd gladly relate what i see as
> the fundamental difference. lemme know, i love waxing poetic on that
> topic.
> as far as self promotion, there is actually very little of that going on
> here, 'cause to whom are we promoting to? do you think that anyone on
> this list, participant or lurker, is in any position of real power?
> kathy huffman, curator of web3d and the cornerhouse show, is about as
> high power as anyone can be in this medium at this point in time, and
> she already knows all this work or you and i wouldn't be having this
> discussion in the first place. oh, and hats off to kathy, without whom i
> would have no career at all - she was the first person to ever notice
> me. so its not at all a question of self promotion, its a way to remind
> each other of our respective URLs, conveniently accessible from within
> the conversation.
> so, what do you think? what is art good for? what is this medium good
> for? or do you want to know how to render more angels? we can talk about
> that too.
> to address your very valid complaint regarding tech overhead, thats why
> i've switched to java for all my web3d needs. hell, it even runs on a
> mac OS 9 on a good day. and not everyone makes big RAM landscapes.
> not to self promote, merely to inform:
> http://www.rhizome.org/Context_Breeder is about as far from a big ram
> landscape as you can get, and i've seen it run on a mac os9. slightly
> lower bandwidth is a little gesture i did called "american cinema"
> http://www.cityarts.com/DandF/
> whats yer url?
> welcome aboard and with warmest regards,
> j
> "roya.jakoby" wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I'm part of the Web3DArt show and have been invited (like everybody else who
>> is participating in the show) to take part in the empyre mailing list and
>> it's discussions. I must admit that I'm having a bit of a hard time to
>> understand empyre and it's aims. I see a lot of self-promotion (no specific
>> problem with that, just somewhat boring) and not a lot of discussion
>> subjects I feel invited to join. It's all very specific, and in many ways
>> way to specific for me.
>> I was hoping to see some more interested subject matters, maybe also stuff
>> that is related to the Web3DArt show itself (beyond the self-promotion) and
>> what it might mean to people outside this small community. I'm part of the
>> show but I can't view most of the works of my fellow participants because I
>> neither have a PC, not mentioning the resources and all those exotic
>> plug-ins I'm required to install (if I would have a PC). I personally find
>> all these requirements for viewing very irritating and annoying, I
>> personally prefer work that is accessible for the broader public and simple
>> in it's technical and ideological requirements. Where would all those 3D
>> sculptures and landscapes take me if I could visit them all? What do my
>> fellow artists say?
>> truly, /roya.
>> PS: I wasn't aware that my own digital art work has elements of 3D until a
>> friend told me so. Ironic to find myself being part of a Web3DArt show, when
>> I'm personally so not a friend of big RAM landscapes and that particular
>> genre of digital arts. I feel like the fly on the wall here.

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