Re: [-empyre-] Re: games and apathy

tanmiko wrote:
> I'm also not a gamer, although put my in front of a console and I'll
> fire away like crazy - it's just that I'm not very good, die quickly and
> have no interest in investing the improving my game.

i didn't want to admit to this, but yes im not very good either..! i always
want to get onto something else new that i might be better at..
re work..responses are varied.. i have had a lot of users say they really
love the visceral nature of the work.. but there is an interresting gender
bias..and i really hate that.. but the fact is women are more likely to
enjoy empyrean than men..  although lots of men do as well.

i was interrested it the sloth club (an eco cultural movement) which i came
across in japan last year. their motto is "slow is good".. and i started looking at slow works of
art as a different way to engage the viewer..



> But my experience showing VR are exactly the opposite of yours. The
> feedback I've gotten is that there is a huge group of people out there
> who are really excited to find 3D games technology being used for other
> purposes - including a lot of girls who are not interested in the
> first-person shooter games but are really attracted to slower, more
> poetic pieces and have to be torn away from the joystick by their
> parents. And these are exactly the people who DON'T like the competitive
> aspect and the porn movie rhythm.
> Perhaps the difference is that my work is more "reality-based" and less
> abstract than yours, so it's easier for people who are not used to
> interactive 3D to figure out what they are supposed to do. But it's also
> clear that the computer games industry is training the upcoming
> generations for us, so that we don't have to stand there and tell people
> how to use our work.
> I do believe that there is simply a lag time and 3D will enter the
> gallery system at some point, just like video did after being ignored
> for so long. But I think it is also important for us as artists to
> examine the time-based interactive experience and understand what makes
> it compelling for the user.
> - tamiko
> > Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:52:49 +1000
> > From: "Melinda Rackham" <>
> > Subject: Re: [-empyre-] games and apathy
> >
> > i am preturbed that gaming has put a massive degree of expectation onto
> > users of and 3d art.. this is above and apart from the seamless, slick
> > persectival production values that  john poited out wher e netart can't
> > course compete. firstly  i must admiit that  im not a net gamer , i got
> > tired of typing kill kill kiil in moos, and i get bored in first person
> > shooters after about 5 minutes, and with the myst series id raterh get
> > cheats than spend zillions of hours working  it out..,i dont wanna do
> > same thing again and again and again,...but i do like those arcade games
> > shooters with guns you hold cause they are short.. i guess thats my
> > generaltional thing slipping)
> >
> > the critcial issues is i think that the gaming and film industries,
> > are becoming increasibngly intertwined, puts an unconscious expectation
> > structure  into the minds of users.. there is a rhythm users are looking
> > for, its the same as a movie rhythm..or a porn movie rhythm would be  a
> > better example.. bit of talk - bit of sex-bit of talk-sex - talk-- etc.I
> > noticed this adrenaline type rhythm really strongly the other week when
> > saw  xmen2   .. bit of talk -bit of action -bit of talk  etc ( i had the
> > interresting experience of being  in a session  with  mostly 12 and 13
> > olds who all talked , ran in and out of the theatre and answerd their
> > mobiles in the non action narrative sequences) .. and that rhythm is
> > pronounced in  games..  bit of exploring -bit of killing(or points
> > bit of exploring..killing etc etc
> >
> >  so when you get to a piece of 3d net feel let down before you
> > do anything with it.... this may be your problem tom@nullpointer.. .the
> > expectation of the adrenaline hit isnt there, the primate body chemisrty
> > peaks and troughs to hook you in havent happned.. i have had people say
> > me about my empyrean work.. "well whats the point" ..what are you
> > to do when you cant find obvious markers of reality or game play..
> > "you mean your just supposed to look at it and think about it?? "
> > "how can avatars communitce if there is no text input?"
> > jesus that wants you to meditate on it.. !!
> >
> > how long are we supposeded to  engage a viewer for ? 30 seconds to 3
> > minutes, 10 minutes?..what is the average time in front of a painting 20
> > seconds..? yet we demand so so much from 3d art. its always in realtion
> > other media.. never valued by its intrinsic quatlities, never for
> > roya was saying the 72dpi aesthetic is beautifull.  so is the lagged,
> > polygony and uncertainly of 3d worlds.. and i think that only happens
> > we stop the comparisions ourselves.. when we stop trying to mimic other
> > forms.. which is what i was trying to get at earlier in my  post about
> > frame...accept the parameters  and work with the subtlies within and
> > them..
> >
> >  maybe as patrick licthy said in his dark night of the soul editorial at
> > intelligent agent (jk : that scrolly thing had me confused for
while..:) we
> > are in the place where  net art in general is devalued..  and the
> > is the important thing..  but i liek to think that in 20 years it wil
have a
> > rennaissance.. just like video art is having at the moment..initially it
> > didnt conform to cinematic expectations and when it was new it struggled
> > then  it died in australia in any rate.. and now it is hot again..  with
> > thsoe degreaded chunky video stills being traded in slick galleries..
> >
> > so i guess we are part of a larger fickle commodities inusdtry that
> > on virtual trends and fashions... do we fit ourselves into that
> > market or do the epicurian stuff that we want to do. i guess the tricik
> > talking enough from both so you dont starve and get to do some of what
> > want....personally , and i dont know if its is the whole netart crisis
> > the moment or i am just finishing 4 yeras on a phd or i am  having a
> > crisis,  i just have not made any plans for future work cause i dont
want to
> > write apps because they might get funded.. im starting to think life is
> > short to do things i dont really wanna do.. growing vegatables is
> > to look much more fun than art making..
> >
> > melinda
> --
> ----------------------------------
>   Tamiko Thiel       Media Artist
> ----------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> empyre forum

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