Re: [-empyre-] see behind

perhaps this is why we are all here.. its not the cash (certainly not the
cash) or the adoration of squillions of 3d art lovers..  its wanting to
delve into one or several of those other dimensions, to make artifice.. to
birth other lifeworlds..
id recommend Greg Egans Diaspora as a great sf book about moving and
transferring consciousnes through computer constructed diemnsions.. in the
end after they ahave been  through so many muatations clonings and
permuatations they all get bored..

re the walking in the mountains.. i think i have said before that my best
VRMlL experiences are always when i am snorkleing.. closest  i get to
immsersive vr down there with the little fishes. electronic-nature, or
nature-nature seem to be  all the same thing really..
the hum of the water is soothing just like a harddrive... you are alone in
you own envelope of soft squishy watery space and really alone even if
others aare there just like mu vrml.. carrried along by the ebbs and flows,
bathing in the sunlight of the datastream.

> Perhaps this is one definition of "media". Relay
> with delay beetween humans.

beautifully put.


melinda, gregoire, +

I  think this is the reason i got into net art in the
first place, is because of dreaming up what's 'behind'
the screen, 'below' the screen...that's just what
moves the whole thing, like to be able to move
imaginatively through semi transparent layers, through
meanings and motifs that are only partly clear, and
remain mysterious and gestural, leading you on like
Cocteau's torches in the long hallway as Beauty enters
the castle of the Beast....


> One of the problems with web - an especially web3d -
> art, is to become
> captive (in french that word is a synonym of
> fascinated...) of the strong
> "aura" of screens.
> I think while making growing vegetables, you will
> understand deeply your
> interest in making ARTifice.
> That trip in mountains makes me think we are not so
> far from landscape
> architects. We have to install a globality, and then
> we have to think about
> human perception of it.
> Perhaps also we want to "see what is behind", like
> when you walk and pass
> through mountains. Not in that ideal of transparency
> that characterize 80's
> ( a direct and frontal
> transparency ) but in making the effort to discover
> "what is behind", giving
> time to think about what we are going to see, to
> hybridize times and
> imaginations.
> Perhaps this is one definition of "media". Relay
> with delay beetween humans.
> And in this direction, landscape, urbanity,
> vegetables and art are ones.
> I can't believe you could stop making art, even if
> we can see nothing it
> will be there.
> grégoire
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Melinda Rackham" <>
> To: "soft_skinned_space"
> <>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 7:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [-empyre-] games and apathy
> > > and click."  i once had a viewer actually angry
> with me because the
> > > piece i made *didn't* function like a web page.
> they were actually
> > > angry! like it was some obligation of computer
> art to function like any
> > > other piece of software, and that it was simply
> unacceptable for
> > > computer art to ask its viewer to figure it out
> (it was then that i
> > > began to really feel that this is all so
> hopeless).
> >
> > i am preturbed that gaming has put a massive
> degree of expectation onto
> > users of and 3d art.. this is above and apart from
> the seamless, slick
> > persectival production values that  john poited
> out wher e netart can't of
> > course compete. firstly  i must admiit that  im
> not a net gamer , i got
> > tired of typing kill kill kiil in moos, and i get
> bored in first person
> > shooters after about 5 minutes, and with the myst
> series id raterh get the
> > cheats than spend zillions of hours working  it
> out..,i dont wanna do the
> > same thing again and again and again,...but i do
> like those arcade games
> and
> > shooters with guns you hold cause they are short..
> i guess thats my
> > generaltional thing slipping)
> >
> > the critcial issues is i think that the gaming and
> film industries, which
> > are becoming increasibngly intertwined, puts an
> unconscious expectation of
> > structure  into the minds of users.. there is a
> rhythm users are looking
> > for, its the same as a movie rhythm..or a porn
> movie rhythm would be  a
> > better example.. bit of talk - bit of sex-bit of
> talk-sex - talk-- etc.I
> > noticed this adrenaline type rhythm really
> strongly the other week when i
> > saw  xmen2   .. bit of talk -bit of action -bit of
> talk  etc ( i had the
> > interresting experience of being  in a session
> with  mostly 12 and 13
> year
> > olds who all talked , ran in and out of the
> theatre and answerd their
> > mobiles in the non action narrative sequences) ..
> and that rhythm is
> really
> > pronounced in  games..  bit of exploring -bit of
> killing(or points
> scoring)-
> > bit of exploring..killing etc etc
> >
> >  so when you get to a piece of 3d net
> feel let down before you
> even
> > do anything with it.... this may be your problem
> tom@nullpointer.. .the
> > expectation of the adrenaline hit isnt there, the
> primate body chemisrty
> > peaks and troughs to hook you in havent happned..
> i have had people say to
> > me about my empyrean work.. "well whats the point"
> ..what are you supposed
> > to do when you cant find obvious markers of
> reality or game play..
> > "you mean your just supposed to look at it and
> think about it?? "
> > "how can avatars communitce if there is no text
> input?"
> > jesus that wants you to meditate on
> it.. !!
> >
> > how long are we supposeded to  engage a viewer for
> ? 30 seconds to 3
> > minutes, 10 minutes?..what is the average time in
> front of a painting 20
> > seconds..? yet we demand so so much from 3d art.
> its always in realtion to
> > other media.. never valued by its intrinsic
> quatlities, never for
> > roya was saying the 72dpi aesthetic is beautifull.
>  so is the lagged,
> > polygony and uncertainly of 3d worlds.. and i
> think that only happens when
> > we stop the comparisions ourselves.. when we stop
> trying to mimic other
> > forms.. which is what i was trying to get at
> earlier in my  post about the
> > frame...accept the parameters  and work with the
> subtlies within and
> without
> > them..
> >
> >  maybe as patrick licthy said in his dark night of
> the soul editorial at
> > intelligent agent (jk : that scrolly thing had me
> confused for  while..:)
> we
> > are in the place where  net art in general is
> devalued..  and the
> community
> > is the important thing..  but i liek to think that
> in 20 years it wil have
> a
> > rennaissance.. just like video art is having at
> the moment..initially it
> > didnt conform to cinematic expectations and when
> it was new it struggled
> > then  it died in australia in any rate.. and now
> it is hot again..  with
> all
> > thsoe degreaded chunky video stills being traded
> in slick galleries..
> >
> > so i guess we are part of a larger fickle
> commodities inusdtry that trades
> > on virtual trends and fashions... do we fit
> ourselves into that commodity
> > market or do the epicurian stuff that we want to
> do. i guess the tricik is
> > talking enough from both so you dont starve and
> get to do some of what you
> > want....personally , and i dont know if its is the
> whole netart crisis of
> > the moment or i am just finishing 4 yeras on a phd
> or i am  having a
> midlife
> > crisis,  i just have not made any plans for future
> work cause i dont want
> to
> > write apps because they might get funded.. im
> starting to think life is
=== message truncated ===


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