Re: [-empyre-] archiving + preservation]
I'm glad you brought this up! I've thought about this a lot, and it
came up many times while I was developing liken. The issue was that we
wanted to have a more [visual/spatial] representation of the node
structure. But this complicates matters 100-fold. Think of the example
Jaka brought up about the links from a "rock" node. "Rock" may be very
close to "Music" in conceptual space, and it may also be very close to
"Geology," but "Music" and "Geology" are very far apart in conceptual
space. This destroys the idea of "clusters," unless nodes are
constantly rearranging themselves into clusters -- at which point the
cluster is basically a list, which is our current default.
I have been looking at two different kinds of structures lately,
associations and prototypes. the first is what you describe in liken;
when I import your xml file into protege, I would categorize elements
of your clusters into prototypes (schema) - class-subclass - inherited
properties. So picture those nice organic human structures skydiving
off into crystalized rational formations. The web is an example of the
first structure, the semantic web is example of the second structure.
The semantic web will look exactly as it looks today, but under the
hood, it will be categorized into ontologies.
Rock-Music, Rock-Chair are associational relationships. In ontological
terms, Rock inherits properties from Object/NaturalObject/Rock.
Specific kinds of Rocks (MoonRocks) inherit from Rock, but add their
own distinctive properties not found in all Rocks (specificallyLocated
Moon). RockMusic on the other hand is not an object, it is a kind of
Radiating/RadiatingSound/AudibleSound/Music. In ontology, relationships
are expressed in such ways as 'isA, hasA, PartOf... Music isA Art,
Music isA FieldOfStudy, Music isA Punishment(face the music), isA
Business, Hobby, etc.............
In Liken you're giving unique id's to both nodes and paths.
EveryLikenThing isA Node or a Path. Can you start to differentiate a
little bit more - what type of node (peopleNode, conceptNode), path
(associationPath, prototypePath, poeticalPath). See, we start getting
We can mentally reconcile this problem very easily, because that's the
way our mind works. Of course "Rock" can have a million connotations!
But when it comes down to displaying these relationships on a grid of
pixels in 2D or 3D space, all existing models of representation fall
short. The "nodemap" representation of liken is the dumb, brute-force
method of describing the pathways as fixed in 2D space. This would be
similar to (if it were possible) taking a picture of the brain from
the top, with every neuron and connection visible. It's interesting to
look at, but ultimately useless in its ability to really tell us
That's why when we talk about "conceptual cartography," we're talking
about fundamentally different ways of
I know what you mean of course (mapping concepts), but amusingly, it
sounds like 'Theoretical Cartography' - (differs from 'Actual
Cartography.' ). So let's associate; what's the difference between
Theoretical Biology and Biological Theory (theory of biology). Would
Conceptual Cartography deal with hyperMaps, where you don't have to
traverse space to get somewhere. Maybe hyperMaps, criticalMaps might
lead to some interesting hybrid topological structure - between the
spatial, associational and prototypical. Topology may offer the
occasion for meta-design principles. Maybe we need some kind of
Godelized methodology, where you can warp in and out of
spatial/associational/nodal 'space.' Space isn't just spatial :). Time
isn't just temporal (Ouch).
So visual to aural mapping may not be taking into consideration the
different topological demands of 'spaces with unique rules' (unique
processes for moving from one point to another). Instead of directly
'mapping' (height to frequency, a to a, b to b), maybe interpretation /
translation is required. Interpretation (hermeneutics) is a non-linear
process in the extreme (unless you are operating with interpretation
methods already well established). AI is moving to AH (artificial
hermeneutics) - intelligence and interpretation are both quaiifiedBy
So we're back at Herbert Simon's Artificial Sciences.
embodying the neighborhoods and networks of paths and concepts.
Hopefully this is interesting enough to inspire others to develop new
imaginations of liken; certainly it is to us, and we have many
alternate reincarnations in mind...
Powered by MessageSoft SMG SPAM, virus-free and secure email
Powered by MessageSoft SMG
SPAM, virus-free and secure email
This archive was generated by a fusion of
Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition) and