Re: [-empyre-] original form

i am sorry i have offended you.
i did not mean to categorise you or your work.
i was speaking as a performance poet and of the similarities in trying to
engage an audience.
i too use rhetoric in my poetry, i don't think it is a bad thing.
komninos zervos

you'll see plenty of rhetoric if you read these poems;

and yes i used to bombard people with these poems, and still do, given the
komninos wrote: -----

To: soft_skinned_space <>
Sent by:
Date: 13/05/2005 02:28AM
Subject: Re: [-empyre-] original form

Hi komninos,

"Can you point me to any of your work that doesn't bombard me with stark
rhetoric, or uses other devices to engage?"

No. We can't help you there. (And, of course, you don't really need our
help. No one does.) You do your job, we do ours. Our job, we believe, is
done. We have given you something that you have categorized as a certain
kind of poetry, or others have categorized as a certain kind of art. That
more than enough for us. We are grateful to you and to everyone else who
stopped by. We have left you less than indifferent. That is also enough for

(Some others categorize what we do as a certain kind of pornography. We
welcome that commentary, too. Still others say that what we do endangers
society. Only in that case will we speak up, if necessary, although we
haven't, thank goodness, come to that yet.)

We're not in the business of defending the indefensible -- poetry and art.
We're just the poets and the artists (and the business people). We make no
claim to understanding what we do. In fact, we're suspicious of poets and
artists who can talk the talk. We do what we do, and leave the explaining
others more competent than us. Or rather, you, as a professor, deal in
rhetoric. We deal in emotion. Or are they the same thing? But even that
question is more than we can deal with.

Young-hae and Marc

On 5/12/05 1:50 PM, "Komninos Zervos" <> wrote:

> this work, the website
> reminds me of the similarities of new media art and performance poetry.
> especially performance poetry in the street or in a shopping mall or at a
> festival or in a park, with a large moving audience passing by the
> perfpoet.
> in that situation were you do not start with an audience but have to
> attract one, this is very similar to the web experience. you pass by many
> sites but few gain your attention and even fewer maintain your attention.
> in the ones that maintain my attention either the navigation/means of
> progression through the piece and/or the content and/or the effect i am
> having on the piece keep me engaged.
> in a performance of poetry in the street, the audience may read the poet
> visually, but apart from their words the poet has few other devices to
> engage the passing crowd.
> buskers have their devices, build an audience, prepare them for a
> performance, mark out their performance area. place their props around
> area, its a performance pre-performance to let people know something good
> will be happening soon.
> alan gregory, a melbourne poet in the 1980s and 1990s, a busking poet,
> would put up a big menu board of poems for people to choose, hand out
> menus, wear a big red cape, and sometimes ring a bell.
> but most performance poets who read in the streets just sound their work
> without any techniques to draw attention to themselves other than their
> words, they just put it out there, and whatever gets listened to is the
> audiences decision. tom the street poet, poor tom or as he is now known
> the world poet, would stand at the corner of bourke street and flinders
> street, the busiest street corner in melbourne reading out his poems and
> handing out street sheets of his poetry. another australian performance
> poet, pio, would shout at the top of his voice, no matter where he was,
> a coffee lounge, or in the street.
> Young-hae and Marc's site is like the street poet of the internet,
> there shouting their words to the passing crowd, some are engaged and
> continue to read, continue to follow the logic and the art of the words,
> some move on.
> i have been engaged by each piece i've visited but i don't think ive seen
> any of them all the way through.i would really like to project them onto
> wall and just have them playing continuously whilst i do other things,
> maybe in a bar, or coffee lounge, so that i can drift in and out of the
> screen.
> someone said that poetry was giving extra or special significance to
> we are familiar with in everyday language. these works by using large
> black fonts on white screens give words that extra significance. and
> what we read from a page we can't see what is coming next, so again the
> similarity with performance or spoken word poetry.
> it is interesting how kim describes the selection process for the initial
> workshop and the most basic, but effective, use of flash technology these
> pieces involve. i have been teaching the CyberStudies major at griffith
> six years now and one thing that becomes obvious is the importance of
> studying and developing narrative strategies for this medium. whilst the
> major has to do with computer and web technologies and their impact on
> arts, visual, media,language, film, etc, and there is always pressure to
> teach skills, software and hardware, it really comes down to how these
> tools are used to make the art, or even be part of the art.
> of course there is new media art that requires little narrative
> interpretation and lots of programming skill, that is generative and
> experiential( Derived from, or pertaining to, experience. Coleridge. "It
> called empirical or experiential . . . because it is divan to us by
> experience or observation, and not obtained as the result of inference or
> reasoning." Sir. W. Hamiltion.) ,

> ry+definition&hl=en
> ),
> that leaves the writing of the narrative to the end-user. you get what
> get while your getting it then you are gone; an of the moment experience.
> this is also a quality, but more likely a criticism, of performance
> well thanks for listening.
> can you point me to any of your work that doesn't bombard me with stark
> rhetoric, or uses other devices to engage?
> cheers
> komninos
> wrote: -----
> To: "'soft_skinned_space'" <>
> From: "Kim Machan" <>
> Sent by:
> Date: 11/05/2005 11:41PM
> Subject: RE: [-empyre-] original form
> Hi Mike
> It seems Young-hae and Marc may still be down on the beach and Victoria
> must
> be busy with other creative responsibilities,  I was waiting for their
> comments ... but will put a few lines up.... They have been working very
> hard on this list!
> You wrote:
> 'What was 'it' that was seen by Kim to attract her attention?
> How did Young-hae and Marc feel about the idea of a commission? Did the
> notion of being asked to do something, fall comfortably within their
> cultural remit?'
> In 1999 a general email call was made inviting artists to participate in
> online residency that would commence with 10 days in Brisbane during the
> MAAP festival and APT and then with ongoing support via email etc....with
> very nice guy called Jeff Sams.
> Young-hae Chang wrote an exquisite application that was, in comparison to
> other applicants, 'technology free' in approach. For my own research, I
> trying to dig into my old rusty hard drive to resurrect this amazing
> document!
> When asked 'what experience do you have in technology applications?' All
> applicants listed dutifully photoshop, director, etc, etc, in contrast
> Young-hae told an intriguing story of passing through metal detectors in
> airport security - it side stepped all of our expectations and in my
> opinion, dealt with the application as a piece of art, (very
> That was 'it' for me!
> Just briefly on the expectations of the training and residency, there
> none, there was no demand for a commission, it was very open and we were
> happy whatever the outcome... The Perfect Artistic website was born out
> unconditional love!
> Best
> kim
> komninos zervos
> lecturer, convenor of CyberStudies major
> School of Arts
> Griffith University
> Room 3.25 Multimedia Building G23
> Gold Coast Campus
> Parkwood
> PMB 50 Gold Coast Mail Centre
> Queensland 9726
> Australia
> Phone 07 5552 8872 Fax 07 5552 8141
> _______________________________________________
> empyre forum

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