Re: [-empyre-] cool project [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Dear Marcus, dear friends,

I'd like to thank you for the pleasure of reading your ideas ans
sharing some virtual space with you. Thank you Marcus for the
invitation, thank you Empyre for supporting the conversation.

I'm sorry that I haven't been able to make myself present in the
conversation as much as I would like too, but I have read and
appreciated the different insights and directions to which you've sent

I'm still indebted to Jim as he made an interesting follow up to the
last message I wrote which I couldn't reply. But then, we're immersed
in this narrative game. I hope to meet you personaly one of these
liquid days.

best whishes for you all


On 6/30/06, marcus bastos <> wrote:
Dear James,

it was a pleasure to have you this month. Thanks for the thoughtful insights!

On 6/29/06, James Barrett <> wrote:
> Hi,
> In concluding my guest-ship here on -empyre- I would like first to express
> gratitude for having been a guest. Thanks!
> Next, to make a "closing statement" in a discussion on Liquid Narrative
> [the tap is turned off?] I thought I would comment on the idea that the
> term "Narrative" and its associated methods and paradigms frame in
> cultural terms how people relate to and accept stories. The focus upon
> narrative/narrated/narrator positions much of that which may actually
> exist from outside in subordinate relations to its system of values. The
> need for a classification such as 'liquid narrative', I believe, is a
> response to the growing presence in western mass culture of story forms
> which move further and further away from those describable in terms of
> Aristotelian plot. Perhaps narrative can adapt to causality not being
> present within the text but rather developing in the "real world" between
> the text and what is presently called 'the reader' or 'user'. Even if this
> is true and considering the excellent work done in narratology, there is a
> need to look at these developing story environments in ways far removed
> from the terms and classifications of narrative.
> In 1955 "The Philosophy of Symbolic Forms Vol.1 Language" was published in
> which Ernst Cassirer wrote that
> "Aristotle strove to raise the grammatical distinction which we express by
> the opposition between "active" and "passive" to the level of a universal
> logic and a metaphysical category." (1980: 254)
> To continue to apply systemic models operating under the title "Narrative"
> to how story emerges from distributed networks that display chaotic
> behavioural patterns [cautious use of the term chaos, chaos theory etc.]
> does not do full justice to the textual worlds humans are weaving in the
> 21st century. There are many ways to look at these relationships but one
> which I think is potentially fruitful is as cultural or social systems of
> meaning. In this their can be strong parallels drawn between stories told
> using distributed networks, spatial and nodal configurations and involving
> the person experiencing them, and the ancient stories that seem to have
> functioned as webs for cultural practice and the interaction between group
> and personal identity. I have studied some of the "story webs" of a couple
> of language groups of Aboriginal Australians. In regards to this Sergio
> wrote that he
> "see[s] the comeback of ancient or pre-modern cultural forms -
> polyphonies, oral cultures and tribalisms (McLuhan), the perception of
> reality as a fluxus, sounds images and words rituals "
> My understanding of Aboriginal multimedial story systems is that they
> were/are very conservative. The polyphony was gained through each member
> of a group having a designated place in the group for as long as they
> adhered to the laws, as expressed in the story systems. I am aware that in
> the Gulf country before a ceremonial dance is staged the body paint of
> each of the dancers must be inspected by a senior dancer to assure that
> every mark is in its correct place and form. The painting up itself must
> be done in a suitable place, depending on such factors as if it is male or
> female dancers. There is "reality as a fluxus", in that the world around
> the person is recognised as being of enormous age, changing and complex.
> But the rituals, sounds, songs and images are passed down along the
> generations and individual interpretation, particularly of sacred/secret
> images and songs, is not often tolerated. The work of Rover Thomas Joolama
> (1926-98) in the open ceremony of the Gurirr Gurirr (Kril Kril) is an
> accessible example of how a story cycle extends out from the body, through
> images, diagrams, sculptural forms through the clan group and its history
> and into the country. A simple summary of Rover Thomas' work can be
> downloaded here:
> My point is that the concept of narrative cannot accommodate something
> like the huge expanse of the cartographic Gurirr Gurirr. New media
> technologies have not yet achieved this level of complexity with story
> telling but it is not completely unreasonable to believe that they could.
> How would the western cannon accommodate such a text?  If we are to
> believe Pierre Bourdieu the western concept of narrative cannot do so.
> Bourdieu in "Censorship and the Imposition of Form" wrote that:
> "…it is the structure of the field itself which governs expression by
> governing both access to expression and the form of expression, and not
> some legal proceeding which has been specially adapted to designate and
> repress the transgression of a kind of linguistic code".
> If we keep looking for beginning-middle-end narratives we are going to
> miss so much of the view out so many fractal windows.
> Thanks Again...
> /jim
> > the idea of having more perspectives when editing a documentary is
> > really fascinating... there are a couple of projects that go in that
> > direction, such as Talhofer's documentaries developed with the
> > Korsakow system (, but this called my
> > attention specially because of its connections with social network
> > related solutions.
> >
> > btw, we are appraoching the end of the month... it would be nice if
> > all the guests could post their closing statements. Despite the now
> > and then quiet month, there were some nice exchanges.
> >
> > On 6/29/06, Benson, Tracey <> wrote:
> >>
> >> This does look very cool!
> >>
> >>
> >> Tracey Meziane
> >> PhD Candidate
> >> Centre for New Media Arts
> >> The Australian National Universtiy
> >>
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > Marcus Bastos
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > empyre forum
> >
> >
> >
> --
> Doctoral Student, Umeå University
> Department of Modern Languages/HUMlab
> +46 (0)90 786 6584
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