[-empyre-] Socio political incidences in Mexico

Gianni Wise gana at iinet.net.au
Tue May 6 16:02:35 EST 2008

Javier .. just curious .. you say that José Antonio Vega Macotela  
compares himself working as the artist alone (a condition that to  
some degree is universal to many artists at least) to the reclusive  
Sta. Martha de? Acatitla. Is that correct? or/and is his performative  
work a reference to the womens' prison in Mexico ? (I think - its  
quite well known).
How, if this is the case, does his performance 'get(s) into  
something, really into an exchange of experiences based on real  
interests'? Could you clarify?
[I do comprehend your point on art using 'socially intense'  
experience as their own. I would call it voyeurism...]

Gianni Wise
On 06/05/2008, at 2:42 PM, Javier Toscano wrote:

> I am a passionate reader of the empyre listings.
> I usually discover new ways to approach problems, issues on new media
> technologies or the like.
> But this time it came about politics in Latin America and Im just
> feeling outraged on how people talk so frivolously around very edgy
> problems.
> I was reading the intense terminology by which La lleca describes
> itself. Much ado about nothing, I would say. Although it is  
> respectable
> to do social work and to care about marginal groups suffering from
> discrimination, I think it is quite something else to preach what
> political art should be, and to try to do it by way of a very poor
> example structured around hard core rethorics.
> Because getting involved with prisoners and have an intense experience
> of your own, and then display that experience as a work of art is not
> far from a narcisistic approach. Not much else is gained in fact by  
> the
> prisoners themselves. Only some points to get out of jail a little bit
> sooner.
> Of course, the Llecans acknowledge this and are prepared to play with
> the position. So they wrote:
> ::Pero aun mas importante que los métodos son los deseos del proyecto.
> (Translated: "But more important than the methods are the desires of
> the project").
> Oh dear, I wished the method was not important. But after all, they  
> are
> getting involved with real persons, aren't they? In some cases,
> methodology is everything.
> A work with real methodology and really far-fetched results is, on the
> same topic, that of an artist working alone, José Antonio Vega
> Macotela.
> http://estacionarte.com/artistas/12
> His piece "Time Exchange" really gets into something, really into an
> exchange of experiences based on real interests, and not on the  
> wannabe
> ambiguous intentions of a group of people who find it fancy to get  
> into
> jail for some artistic hobbyjob.
> And that of even bringing out the names of Francis Alÿs and Thomas
> Hirschhorn! Isn't that a bit too much? "Yes, we're not like them...."
> Who suggested they would be in the first place? A little
> méconnaisance... doesn't hurt, huh?
> I really feel misrepresented just to bring the work of this collective
> out. Many more things are happening around. The APPO and the political
> works of collectives in Oaxaca, John Holloway writing from Puebla (he
> just collaborated in a piece by an artist named Juan Pablo Macías),
> Fran Illich and his Possible Worlds, bulbo in Tijuana, someone brought
> that one out already...
> (I wouldn't care that much if La LLeca was one among many, but of
> course, nice people back them up, Brumaria, they admit.)
> More than anything, and more than explicitly directing my criticism
> towards a specific group, I would like to bring up the dangers of
> theoretical rhetorics completely supporting activities with political
> implications. One thing is to get dirty, another is to fancy changing
> the world by changing your way of talking.
> t
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