[-empyre-] konnecting airlines

Martin Rieser martin.rieser at gmail.com
Sat Jul 7 18:50:48 EST 2012

I think Johannes is moving towards my point about a completely new form of
representation beyond the screen, in his discussion of motion capture and

While I do think the mobile etc is creating a new self-performing and
spatialised 'cinema'- I think the new forms of data clouds - placed and
formed to real topologies are a very new and different form of
representation,  that goes beyond optical  'representation' and qualifies
in some ways as a valid melded reality.


On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 11:27 PM, Johannes Birringer <
Johannes.Birringer at brunel.ac.uk> wrote:

> well isn't it good to find out that "screens" and screening are suspicious
> after all,
> i had wondered about it for a while.
> there is much to catch up to, I just had a brief comment on the post
> regarding
> Kinect (Simon), but also keeping in my mind the fascinating discussion on
> Mr/Ms Winter's reading
> of early cinema & x-rays, and what Martin, Timothy, Kriss, Brian, Rob and
> Ian have written here
> (especially as the discussion may turn/move between the technical and the
> social, and into the social more).
> Kriss comments on Winter:
> >>
> S/he seems more interested in the X-ray because it offers a figure, while
> the cinematograph is considered non-figurative and therefore "inhuman."
> >>
> How does X-ray offer a figure?  or following your argument on social
> relations: "But we still have to recognize a figure (or political position,
> concept of a social, or a self)"?
> how does X-ray mediate something we define as social?
> My anecdote is brief.  I am not as technically savvy on Kinect, but – as
> Simon says, he wanted to "develop some new interactive systems. It is a
> curious device, especially as to how it visualises the world."... --
> Anyway, I am not sure i understand how the Kinect camera "turns everything
> into a screen" (Simon).  If we are thinking of cameras (back tracking for a
> moment), it's certainly my experience that i didn't think of
> the footage I would shoot as screens. Early film was not instantly
> visible/readable anyway, it had to be developed. Later, with video tape
> (3/4", SHVS, VHS), my habit was to shoot and then go home
> not watching what i had filmed until a day after or so  (Martin probably
> will point us to current cell phone or digital camera or Ipad tools that
> make you see what you shoot as you shoot - but this
> instantaneousness does not interest me; screening my camera?).
> Camera for me is a vision instrument or composing tool, or a capture
> technology, and when a young programmer from my Lab brought the Kinect to
> rehearsals with the dancers, we tried to find out what it could do,
> interactively.  In our last production, "for the time being" [
> http://people.brunel.ac.uk/dap/forthetimebeing.html] we used the Kinect
> camera in one scene, the "Killing of the Sun" scene that was inspired by
> the Russian futurist opera (1913) "Victory over the Sun."
> Our programmer, Cameron McKirdy, was interested in how what types of
> movement on stage work successfully,  how the movement can become
> interactively meaningful for our scene,  as he was focusing on the arms
> controlling the visuals (the sun) we project onto our stage (behind the
> dancers). My design partner (Michèle Danjoux) had created a costume for the
> dancer in this scene which resembles a sarcophagus, and the arms were
> hidden in it ( restricting movement of course), so we noted that  the
> Kinect infra-red camera would read the "figure" but could not read it
> properly as the figure had no arms. It could not read the figure.
> This created much discussion as we were reminded of earlier complications
> with motion capture systems and how such systems are set up to "read" a
> certain anatomy or anatomical figure, and also how it could or could not
> deal with occlusions or changes in the anatomy (when we placed the
> reflective markers on the "wrong" body parts).
> In this case, are we not talking about capture systems and now such
> systems were developed for a certain kind of vision?  This may of course be
> related to the "sceens" or sceening, but whereas I am still
> preoccupied with the kind of recognizable action a human actor is
> generating in interface with a system  (and here is a political dimension
> which we might need to address not just in performance but in everyday
> life) to occupy or produce
> meaning in a given context, it appears Simon was talking about something
> else, the "particle vision system"?
> (he says: >>It projects high powered infra-red light onto the scene in
> front of it and then scans the returning data as a variable resolution dot
> matrix, in the process creating a 3D point cloud model of the scene. When
> varying the resolution dynamically you can produce some quite amazing
> visual effects that in normal operation of the device are never visible>>
> what visual affects are you talking about if I may ask?
> >>
> It is only when you visualise the data cloud you see the visual field.
>  Anyway, when doing this the bodies of people, objects in the visual field,
> walls and surfaces, all can be seen to function as screens.
> The dynamically variable projected point cloud appears to crawl over
> everything and has the visual effect of many hundreds of thousands of small
> particles interacting with things, and each other, as they collect vital
> data
> >>
> To what extent, if i follow your argument, do such systems generate a
> different kind of "visual" representation, and is this what was intimated
> by Martin's post?
> Lastly, have you seen work done with thermal cameras?  (cf. Joseph
> Giacomi's book, "Thermal: Seeing the World Through 21st Century Eyes").
>  Well, strange world it is.
> with regards
> Johannes Birringer
> dap-lab
> _______________________________________________
> empyre forum
> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> http://www.subtle.net/empyre

Martin Rieser

Professor of Digital Creativity
De Montfort University
IOCT: Faculty of Art Design and Humanities
The Gateway, Leicester LE1 9BH
44 +116 250 6578

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