[-empyre-] empyre Digest, Vol 111, Issue 8

verlag at traumawien.at verlag at traumawien.at
Sun Mar 2 20:32:42 EST 2014

Those are good links, but you are talking Browser/Tablet html5 and i think
we are talking 'already archaic e-ink devices' w generative Back Ends and a
static, burnt-in Front End (as long as they exist yet, at least at the
moment, there is a huge 'difference' to html5). Not to mention b/w. There
won't be an *http://alongslide.com/ <http://alongslide.com/>* with e-ink,
or does it? I stopped using it, but i like e-ink and especially it's
boundedness. So the difference maybe will be devices like digital Paper
compared to the one and only App Browser, running everything.

What i could add is our ghostwriters graphics were actual Perl programs
directly related to the text and made on the fly while content was being
scraped. Graphics as accessible Software, just like epub Trailer by Silvio
etc, which i like a lot. Could suggest the list to its perl programmer
Bernhard Bauch if you want him sth to say about it. Epub Designers def must
heavily cooperate with programmers, no way out. There's not much web design
here to me, though. http://traumawien.at/ghostwriters/b_033/

Bzgl Published Cramer Books as a Desaster. Why Desaster? We learned
everything from those texts. Why not cut them down and publish again?

On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 4:44 PM, adamhyde <adam at flossmanuals.net> wrote:

> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
> On 03/01/2014 02:58 AM, Michael Dieter wrote:
>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>>> But how does great epub design look like? I didn't see much of it yet
>>> except to actually start 'think icon'. Could you bring up some examples
>>> here?
>> Am interested in this as well.
>> EPUB3 has a lot of new affordances, but haven't seen a lot of people
>> really exploring what's possible. The media overlays seem like they
>> could be worth messing around with. Maybe Adam has some tips here (if
>> he's following the list this weekend).
> So...to think about good EPUB design you have to think like a web
> designer. This is the interesting thing these days, are books designed by
> 'book designers' (traditionally locked into DTP and fixed page size) or are
> they to be designed by web designers (more familiar with flowable page
> design environments) and HTML.
> Its a kind of curious question to ask - what is the root design approach?
> Its relevant here because EPUBs are not books, they are just HTML. All the
> fixed page layout blah blah of EPUB3 is really, IMHO, is there to placate
> those designers who cannot think in flowables. Its a very stubborn feature
> of the spec. Fixed size pagination is dead and we should let it go. Thats
> not to say paper book design is dead but to say we need to start thinking
> about the paper page as one form factor amongst many and use the same tools
> to design paper books as we do EPUBs. We need to think about design as
> re-flowable information regardless of weather the final artifact is a paper
> book or an electronic book, an app or a website. To think like that is to
> think in flowables.
> Interestingly, while many are hoping for some form of fixed page (book
> page) in EPUB and hoping against hope that this 'important' remnant of the
> legacy printing era will survive in electronic books, the important issue
> is pagination not fixed page sizes/layouts. Pagination is not just
> important for ebooks but increasingly HTML in the browser is becoming
> paginated. A lot of libs that support resizing, flowing etc that are being
> built to support mobile devices (mostly phones and tablets, not 'books')
> and these are having quite an effect on webpage design. A good example is
> snow fall of course (http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2012/snow-fall/?
> forceredirect=yes#/?part=tunnel-creek) but you can see many
> examples...here is one I just googled:
> http://www.vondutch.com/com/
> The above are experiments with pagination in 'single page' websites. That
> is, IMHO, where things are going and its being driven by the need for
> pagination not in books but for managing information in small screen
> devices. Right now its all about pagination and we should see pagination of
> flowables as the central design issue not fixed page layout.
> All of these pagination features are enabled by Javascripts and mostly for
> use in mobile web browsing devices (and many apps use webkit as a lib for
> information display) but all of this is also possible in EPUB. And not just
> EPUB3. What many people forget, and this is why I posed the question to
> Florian about the HTML engine as a flowable typesetting engine for print
> and electronic media, is that in many situations the renderer in ereaders
> *is* a browser. iPad iBooks uses (a hacked up) webkit which is the engine
> behind chrome. So you have always been able to use JavaScripts etc in EPUB
> (JS, along side fixed page layout, was one of the promises of EPUB3)....so
> I increasingly get confused about why there is all this fuss about
> 'container' formats. EPUB is just a container format - it is infact a
> portable website. Bill McCoy, presidento of the IDPF (keeper of the EPUB
> standards) calls them 'a website in a box'. If we could talk more
> frequently about them this way we would be able to understand what is
> actually happening here and what is possible.
> Personally....I think EPUB is artificial. There is no difference between
> the web and an ebook and there shouldnt be. The following is just one
> project of many that actively blurs that distinction - http://readk.it/.
> If you are confused by that project its because ebooks are artifice but you
> don't know it yet. The whole idea of an ebook is essentially being
> maintained because you can sell it. You can sell books, even ebooks, but
> you cant sell websites.
> So if you ask me what good EPUB design looks like I will say it looks like
> good web design.
> If you want to try some ebook design download one, change the suffix from
> 'epub' to 'zip' and then unzip it. Get out a text editor and go to
> town...(you need a non DRM ebook to do this, try the one linked from here
> if you dont have one http://www.resourcecontracts.
> org/blog/guides-to-contract-terminology.html)
> adam
>> There's also the ongoing issue of compatibility with devices, EPUB3
>> had a terrible adoption rate, not sure if it's improved on the
>> hardware vendor side, but certainly a lot of publishers are still on
>> the older version.
>> Yeah, also reminds me, I spoke with representative of a major academic
>> publisher a couple of months ago about some of this stuff, after they
>> were really hyping their digital publishing services. I asked whether
>> they had moved to EPUB3 - the response was that they had no idea, it
>> was the first time anyone had ever asked a question like that, and so
>> they would have to find out and get back to me. They also had no in
>> house digital design team, everything was being outsourced.
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