[-empyre-] sex death love - on AGEING

Murat Nemet-Nejat muratnn at gmail.com
Tue Oct 1 01:13:08 AEST 2019

Is anybody familiar with German director Fassbinder's film *Fear Eats the
Soul, *the love between a German woman in her sixties and a North African
man in around his forties?


On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 11:04 AM warkk <WarkK at newschool.edu> wrote:

> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
> thank you  Shu Lea for recalling Sandy’s legendary performance. It’s also
> described in the book I’m writing about right now: Time is a thing a body
> moves through by T. Fleischmann. The book is a lovely meditation on Felix
> Gonzales Torres among other things.
> It had not occurred to me that when I saw Sandy perform she would have
> been about the age I am now. I don’t know why I  like the thought of that.
> They say transition is a second puberty but I like to think puberty is a
> transition also. So is menopause. Transition is just a thing our bodies do.
> They mess with the times if the body.
> I do feel like I am both 58 and 18 at the same time. My 18 year old self
> is going out dancing at raves and doing drugs and making out with strangers
> while my 58 year old self is doing her best to keep her safe.
> My 18 year old self is making a lot of friends who are a little older and
> wiser on her timeline. On the other timeline they all seem to be 30 years
> old, where my 58 year old self marvels at how advanced they are compared to
> when I (we) were 30. The kids are all right. They are oblivious to what
> will hit them if the world endures long enough for them to be 58 and I’m
> reluctant to tell them too much.
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 9:23 AM Shu Lea Cheang <shulea at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>> Dear Annie
>> Thank you.
>> Very courageous for posting here on this particular topics and i also
>> thank Miha, Ana, Murat, Alan, Ruth, Simon, Theresa and Sandy who share
>> their very personal thoughts on this. I do want us to feel here at -empyre-
>> soft skinned space, among our colleagues (contemporaries), we can bring
>> these issues up. Being naked, vulnerable and brave. For a long time. i have
>> not thought it is possible to bring my sex work (my side job as scifi porn
>> filmmaker) or queer/gender issues into 'legitimate' media forum discussion.
>> I am glad this september here at -empyre-, we make a step forward.
>> Without getting into penetration, Sandy's orgasmic performance in which
>> she relocates her G-spot to her palm, rubbing it (masturbate) to arrive at
>> orgasm with public encouragement. Sandy was performing this act in pretty
>> much all major media conferences in the 90s,to recall this act, Sandy must
>> be in her late 50s at the time? She has virtually repositioned her orgasmic
>> power.
>> Sandy Stone on interaction, interface and Desire.
>> https://duplox.wzb.eu/docs/panel/sandy.html
>> best
>> sl
>> On 30.09.19 12:32, Annie Abrahams wrote:
>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>> Hi all,
>> Trying to look back at these few days I notice it is difficult to treat
>> the subject of "sexuality and age" in public. I read some very touching
>> stories on ageing (Simon, Ana), but we only sidewise touched on sexuality,
>> on the kind (what kind?) that goes with old age.
>> We only sidewise touched on sexuality, on the kind (what kind?) that goes
>> with old age. But that is a construct (Miha). Thanks to Ruth for
>> encouraging me, for pointing to how politic the subject is and to how
>> body-chemistry permanently changes the way it feels to be alive, and in
>> relation to other people, that it opens up whole new dimensions of relating
>> and resonating with the world, whilst leaving behind others. From
>> Murat's reaction I learned how awfully difficult it is to discuss the
>> subject in public.
>> I think I will go on researching, but I will try to create safer
>> conditions. It feels necessary and I am not afraid to fail (nothing to
>> loose :)). If so, I will contact some of you again. I will need diversity.
>> If someone else on the list would be interested or can give me tips for a
>> "how to" please write me a personal mail.
>> Ageing goes with loss as Murat said.
>> Socializing our houses and our ageing (Ana) won't be done for us, so yes
>> we should start making kin, taking care (Sandy) early.
>> It can also be an opportunity. It is an opportunity for resilience and
>> change.
>> Shu Lea thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to mutate my
>> anger to an interesting exchange.
>> Ps.
>> I would love to see the exhibition Alan dreams of - Anger is a force ....
>> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 10:29 AM Allucquere Rosanne Stone <
>> sandy at sandystone.com> wrote:
>>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>>> I just returned from dinner with a robust, boisterous group of people
>>> who live in cohousing.  They decided to follow Donna's injunction to "make
>>> kin", and they're successful at it. People of many ages, many professions,
>>> including the elderly and the differently abled.  They care for each other.
>>> I helped build and help run a community radio station that brings
>>> together people of many ages and many ability levels to keep alive our
>>> motto "many voices, one station".  We care for each other.
>>> Instead of looking outward at the horrors perpetrated by our society on
>>> the old and sick and different and differently abled, we look inward and
>>> build our own for our own.  It's extremely hard, it's dangerous, it's
>>> possible to fail.  But if we don't make kin, if we don't take care of our
>>> own, no one will.  To that, I dedicate a large portion of my life. Let
>>> others point out how awful life can be for the elderly, and let others try
>>> to understand what can be done and how to do it.  In the warping presence
>>> of the destructive forces of capital, in the face of all of patriarchy's
>>> evil, we'll simply do all we can to continue to make kin and to care for
>>> each other.
>>> That's all I have to say on the topic of aging.
>>> Sandy
>>> <https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=siglink&utm_campaign=reach>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> empyre forum
>>> empyre at lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au
>>> http://empyre.library.cornell.edu
>> _______________________________________________
>> empyre forumempyre at lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.auhttp://empyre.library.cornell.edu
>> _______________________________________________
>> empyre forum
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> --
> McKenzie Wark (she/her)
> *Professor of Media and Culture*
> 65 w11th st, NEW YORK, NY 10011
> *Office:* room #456 *Cell: *646 369 7266 *Twitter: *@mckenziewark *Insta*:
> @mckenziewark3000
> _______________________________________________
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