<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424079008528_2733">Hi Empyreans.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I wonder about something here in Ben's post and</div><div dir="ltr">thought it best to ask before the new topic comes</div><div dir="ltr">up. Well, look, Ben wrote,</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424079008528_2832" dir="ltr">"<span class="" style="mso-ansi-language:EN-GB" lang="EN-GB">A system is a set of components that interact. They need not be <br style="" class="">
symbolic. A wind-mill is a system, is it symbolic? A person using a <br style="" class="">
hammer to hit a nail is a system of a person, a hammer, a nail, and a <br style="" class="">
thing the nail is hammered into, is that symbolic? I can see how these <br style="" class="">
systems could be re-framed as representational: A wind-mill represents <br style="" class="">
the wind-speed in the speed at which grain is ground; a nail's depth <br style="" class="">
represents the degree of force applied to the hammer. This is all just <br style="" class="">
simple causation. I'm not sure we can reduce symbolic representation to <br style="" class="">
causation.</span>"</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">My observation is that just as in the hammer-nail system a person</div><div dir="ltr">is included, so would a person be included in the wind-mill. To that</div><div dir="ltr">extent those systems are both symbolic. It seems to me that this is</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424079008528_3036" dir="ltr">basically the distinction between nature/culture. I believe I'm right in</div><div dir="ltr">saying that human involvement is always already symbolic hence</div><div dir="ltr">cultural. It could be that I'm erring somewhere in not focusing on the</div><div dir="ltr">distinction culture/technical, I don't know. Anyway I'm getting some</div><div dir="ltr">really good things on ideas of film use, computer use in this, so</div><div dir="ltr">thanks for all. With best wishes, William<br> </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div style="" class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424079008528_2832" dir="ltr"> </div></div></body></html>