<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div>Ben, on a high level of abstraction doesn't "prediction" become synonymous with definition. For instance, the involvement of sex in a pornographic movie is not "on a high level confidence" (i.e. a prediction to be proved empirically), but absolute (a priori, part of the definition of what a pornographic film. Can a film be pornographic with a sex scene? Of course, on a higher level, if we can also include violence in our definition of pornography for example, it can.<br><br></div>My question is in what ways, if any, if your predictions are empirical and not purely deductive?<br><br></div>I do believe, though it is not clear to me yet how, boredom, pleasure <u>and obsession</u> may have subtle interactions where deductive/mechanical prediction plays a significant part. In obsession the mechanical (predictable) repetition of the same act can be both boring and predictable.<br><br></div>Ciao,<br></div>Murat<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 7:07 PM, B. Bogart <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ben@ekran.org" target="_blank">ben@ekran.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br>
Hello Murat,<br>
<br>
</span>From my introductory reply to John's initial message on this topic:<br>
<span class=""><br>
> I would like to close with one final concept, the notion of abstraction<br>
> in predictions. I would define an abstraction as a representation where<br>
> the those features that are common across a category are emphasized over<br>
> features that emphasize the individual. Predictions operate at a<br>
> particular level of abstraction.<br>
<br>
</span>In retrospect the label "description" would have been better than<br>
"representation".<br>
<br>
One could predict (with a very high level of confidence) that a<br>
pornographic film is likely to involve sex scenes. Here "sex" is a very<br>
high level abstraction that refers to a very broad category. As we use<br>
descriptions with less abstraction, the reference becomes more specific<br>
and less oriented to the whole category; for example, 'fellatio'. As we<br>
get less abstract, we can be less confident about the prediction because<br>
it's more specific to particular scenarios.<br>
<br>
As we continue to get less abstract (more concrete) we eventually end up<br>
with a highly detailed description that could approach a unique scene in<br>
a single pornographic film; for example, 'a man in his 30s with stubble,<br>
dark hair and green eyes with a lip ring on his left side containing a<br>
red captive bead with performs fellatio on...'. In such a case the<br>
prediction can be quite tenuous due to the degree of specificity.<br>
<br>
As we are unlikely to create highly detailed descriptions of future<br>
events, our ability to predict is dependent on abstraction. Such<br>
abstractions give us a sense of the constraints on what is likely to<br>
happen, without knowing exactly what will happen.<br>
<br>
I hope that is more clear.<br>
<br>
B.<br>
<span class=""><br>
<br>
On 15-05-13 12:51 PM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote:<br>
> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
</span><span class="">> "At a high level of abstraction everything is<br>
> predictable."<br>
><br>
> Ben, could you clarify what the above sentence means? What is "a level<br>
> of abstraction"? How does it relate to prediction?<br>
><br>
> Ciao,<br>
> Murat<br>
><br>
> On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 2:06 PM, B. Bogart <<a href="mailto:ben@ekran.org">ben@ekran.org</a><br>
</span><div><div class="h5">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ben@ekran.org">ben@ekran.org</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br>
> Thanks for jumping in Lyn!<br>
><br>
> You write: "...in anticipation, it requires a moment where expectation<br>
> of an event is delayed beyond our expectations."<br>
><br>
> In the framework I'm thinking through in this discussion (where boredom<br>
> is the state when the external world appears to match our predictions<br>
> and offers no surprise, at some level of description and arousal is the<br>
> state where the external world violates our predictions) then it seems<br>
> anticipation is a prediction where the predicted event is desired.<br>
><br>
> The notion of delay is interesting here. We continue to expect the event<br>
> to occur, but it does not (immediately) and yet we continue to expect<br>
> it. It seems anticipation is an edge between perceiving signals<br>
> indicating our prediction is correct, and yet does not immediately<br>
> materialize. There also seems to be some degree of abstraction involved<br>
> here, not just expecting that an event will occur, but that it will<br>
> occur within a particular period of time.<br>
><br>
> I would expect that focusing away from the signals that reinforce our<br>
> prediction (mind wandering during anticipation) would reduce the<br>
> investment in the desired event. I think anticipation then would depend<br>
> on continuously expecting and fantasizing the desired event.<br>
><br>
> I'd like to get a little deeper into this idea of lack and boredom. In<br>
> the framework above, boredom is independent of the value we attach to<br>
> events that occur or not. We are bored when we are simply not<br>
> experiencing anything beyond our expectations. Perhaps lack is related<br>
> to abstraction. At a high level of abstraction everything is<br>
> predictable, while a low level of abstraction makes everything novel and<br>
> unpredictable. It seems we could think of lack as a shift towards higher<br>
> level abstractions where more and more becomes predictable because of<br>
> the lack of attention to details.<br>
><br>
> Later you write:<br>
> > meditation sometimes is applied to overcome need, to overcome lack,<br>
> > to overcome desire. (In buddhism, desire is linked to the root of all<br>
> > suffering). If we were to apply meditative practices as an antidote<br>
> > to boredom, we find a different problem, particularly as boredom is a<br>
> > primary obstacle in overcoming itself. I think if this very<br>
> > abstractly as a lack cycle.<br>
><br>
> I can see how meditation removes the values we attach to events,<br>
> thoughts, etc. but if we consider boredom as a state where reality and<br>
> exceptions agree, then it seems meditation would be an acceptance,<br>
> rather than 'antidote' to boredom. How would you define boredom?<br>
><br>
> I can imagine that meditative focus on self-control and detachment to<br>
> predictions could be an antidote to lack. This could be manifest by<br>
> shifting the level of abstraction in other other direction; moving<br>
> attention to smaller and smaller details that emphasize the uniqueness<br>
> of each moment and each individual.<br>
><br>
> Lyn, could you elaborate on this notion of a "lack cycle"?<br>
><br>
> Thanks again Lyn; I really appreciate your comments, and I think this<br>
> link with meditation brings the discussion to some interesting<br>
> territory.<br>
><br>
> Ben<br>
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