<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Hi Christina,<br><br></div>What is the point of art if it "doesn't contaminate the general pool"?<br><br></div>Ciao,<br></div>Murat<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Horea Avram <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:horea.avram@gmail.com" target="_blank">horea.avram@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br><div dir="ltr">Hi Murat,<div><br></div><div>Your point is very interesting, indeed. </div><div>(Inter)subjectivity of the machines as a way to transgress the logical systems (of the machines and of our own).</div><div><br></div><div>And thanks for the reading suggestions!</div><div><br></div><div>H</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 10:07 PM, Murat Nemet-Nejat <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:muratnn@gmail.com" target="_blank">muratnn@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div>Hi Horea,<br><br></div>Actually, we are agreeing. The human (in this instance the artist's) inability to control the medium (which the human mind may project as a failure of the machine} is exactly what is liberating. With no conscious will or intention of the user, it enables the user to transgress the logical system, exigencies the machines creates around itself. In one sense, the machine "makes a mistakes." In another sense, the machine has abilities beyond the human ones.<br><br></div>I talk in detail about the importance of the "inefficiences" of the technological medium in the creation of art discussing 19th century photographic light in my book <i>The Peripheral Space of Photography (Los Angeles: </i>Green Integer, 2004<i>).</i> In an earlier discussion a few months ago here, I referred to an interview with the film maker Renoir where he talks about the importance of defects in technology in fil (and art in general). The interview is on utube.<br><br></div>Ciao,<br></div>Murat<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 7:28 AM, Horea Avram <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:horea.avram@gmail.com" target="_blank">horea.avram@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br><div dir="ltr">Hi Murat and Anne-Sarah, <div><br></div><div>I also believe that it is crucial to define what a "mistake" might be in the context of machines or dispositifs.</div><div>Is the "technological being" (i.e. the machine/dispositif) able to make mistakes? Or mistakes are entirely human being's responsibility?</div><div><br></div><div>I think mistakes are not liberation from machines (and here I disagree with Murat), but they are intrinsic part of the machines.</div><div>And by mistakes I mean those technical shortcomings and imperfections in the interaction process, those delays in what should be a real-time system, those real-virtual registration and superimposition errors, especially in Augmented Reality and ubiquitous computing devices and applications, etc.</div><div>These "mistakes", as I see them, not only permit the system function (of course within an estimated and acceptable error range), but they can be seen as a distinctive aesthetic aspect of the technological medium (whatever that is). These flaws can be assumed (especially in artistic projects) as the artist's "trace," or as the tool's "stroke" that can reflect the attributes of the medium(s), the unique play between the accuracy of the machine and our subjective actions, between the transparency of the medium and its reflexive strategy (the flawless machine vs. the subjective, "emotional" machine). </div><div>Isn't this an aspect of the intersubjectivity human-machine/dispositif?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Horea</div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 12:27 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:aslemeur@free.fr" target="_blank">aslemeur@free.fr</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br>
Hi Murat<br>
<br>
so people here are reading extra messages... with links !<br>
good to know !!<br>
<br>
thank you for your note.<br>
I guess I have to define what is a 'mistake' :<br>
mistake in my understanding of how to program my interactive rules ?<br>
and more seemingly mistake in the eyes of the viewer...<br>
when the logic seems not logical 'enough'...<br>
<br>
I will read Cocteau again...<br>
<br>
Have a nice week,<br>
<br>
Anne-Sarah<br>
----- Mail original -----<br>
De: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" <<a href="mailto:muratnn@gmail.com" target="_blank">muratnn@gmail.com</a>><br>
À: "soft_skinned_space" <<a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au" target="_blank">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a>><br>
Envoyé: Samedi 11 Juillet 2015 23:21:38<br>
Objet: Re: [-empyre-] aslemeur, experimental 3D image, Moscow, July 2015<br>
<br>
----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br>
Hi Anne-Sarah,<br>
<br>
Mistakes are liberation from machines. If you can make a machine make a<br>
mistake, it seems you are liberating yourself from it-- as Cocteau's<br>
infernal machine implies.<br>
Ciao,<br>
Murat<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 5:07 AM, <<a href="mailto:aslemeur@free.fr" target="_blank">aslemeur@free.fr</a>> wrote:<br>
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