<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Hi Anne-Sarah,<br><br></div>I wonder if such a thing as "voluntary imperfection" exists, ambiguous or otherwise. First, if it is voluntary, it is not an imperfection. Second, doesn't imperfection imply a loss of control on the maker's side? In another context (in the essay "Questions of Accent") I describe this as one being "unable to hear his or her own accent."<br><br></div>Ciao,<br></div>Murat<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 4:54 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:aslemeur@free.fr" target="_blank">aslemeur@free.fr</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br>
Hi there,<br>
<br>
- If I make a programming mistake, then the program would not work. too bad.<br>
- I can make a 'thinking' programming mistake (I think I code this order, but in fact I am coding something else)<br>
then it works, but not as I thought it would. Should I keep that offer or not ?<br>
It probably depends on the artistic aspect it brings ?<br>
<br>
here what I like is that the 'thinking' programming mistake - that I very often do- are generating artistic visual ... elements,<br>
unpredicted, surprising, that can enrich the work (conceptualy/visualy...)<br>
<br>
it can appear as technical mistake to the viewer (or not). depends on the level of irreverence/disobedience to the system and its appeal to perfection this element includes. or depends too on the artistic element it brings.<br>
I like to be inbetween. so the viewer can ask him/herself if what he/she perceives is 'normal'<br>
<br>
I wonder what tecnological art pieces demonstrate voluntary ambivalent imperfections...<br>
and if 'unfinished' technological art pieces are shown ?<br>
<br>
regards,<br>
<span class=""><br>
Anne-Sarah<br>
----- Mail original -----<br>
De: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" <<a href="mailto:muratnn@gmail.com">muratnn@gmail.com</a>><br>
À: "soft_skinned_space" <<a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a>><br>
</span>Envoyé: Mardi 14 Juillet 2015 22:07:07<br>
<span class="">Objet: Re: [-empyre-] aslemeur, experimental 3D image, Moscow, July 2015<br>
<br>
----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br>
</span><span class="">Hi Horea,<br>
<br>
Actually, we are agreeing. The human (in this instance the artist's)<br>
inability to control the medium (which the human mind may project as a<br>
failure of the machine} is exactly what is liberating. With no conscious<br>
will or intention of the user, it enables the user to transgress the<br>
logical system, exigencies the machines creates around itself. In one<br>
sense, the machine "makes a mistakes." In another sense, the machine has<br>
abilities beyond the human ones.<br>
<br>
I talk in detail about the importance of the "inefficiences" of the<br>
technological medium in the creation of art discussing 19th century<br>
</span>photographic light in my book *The Peripheral Space of Photography (Los<br>
Angeles: *Green Integer, 2004*).* In an earlier discussion a few months ago<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">here, I referred to an interview with the film maker Renoir where he talks<br>
about the importance of defects in technology in fil (and art in general).<br>
The interview is on utube.<br>
<br>
Ciao,<br>
Murat<br>
<br>
On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 7:28 AM, Horea Avram <<a href="mailto:horea.avram@gmail.com">horea.avram@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br>
> Hi Murat and Anne-Sarah,<br>
><br>
> I also believe that it is crucial to define what a "mistake" might be in<br>
> the context of machines or dispositifs.<br>
> Is the "technological being" (i.e. the machine/dispositif) able to make<br>
> mistakes? Or mistakes are entirely human being's responsibility?<br>
><br>
> I think mistakes are not liberation from machines (and here I disagree<br>
> with Murat), but they are intrinsic part of the machines.<br>
> And by mistakes I mean those technical shortcomings and imperfections in<br>
> the interaction process, those delays in what should be a real-time system,<br>
> those real-virtual registration and superimposition errors, especially in<br>
> Augmented Reality and ubiquitous computing devices and applications, etc.<br>
> These "mistakes", as I see them, not only permit the system function (of<br>
> course within an estimated and acceptable error range), but they can be<br>
> seen as a distinctive aesthetic aspect of the technological medium<br>
> (whatever that is). These flaws can be assumed (especially in artistic<br>
> projects) as the artist's "trace," or as the tool's "stroke" that can<br>
> reflect the attributes of the medium(s), the unique play between the<br>
> accuracy of the machine and our subjective actions, between the<br>
> transparency of the medium and its reflexive strategy (the flawless machine<br>
> vs. the subjective, "emotional" machine).<br>
> Isn't this an aspect of the intersubjectivity human-machine/dispositif?<br>
><br>
><br>
> Horea<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 12:27 PM, <<a href="mailto:aslemeur@free.fr">aslemeur@free.fr</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br>
>> Hi Murat<br>
>><br>
>> so people here are reading extra messages... with links !<br>
>> good to know !!<br>
>><br>
>> thank you for your note.<br>
>> I guess I have to define what is a 'mistake' :<br>
>> mistake in my understanding of how to program my interactive rules ?<br>
>> and more seemingly mistake in the eyes of the viewer...<br>
>> when the logic seems not logical 'enough'...<br>
>><br>
>> I will read Cocteau again...<br>
>><br>
>> Have a nice week,<br>
>><br>
>> Anne-Sarah<br>
>> ----- Mail original -----<br>
>> De: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" <<a href="mailto:muratnn@gmail.com">muratnn@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> À: "soft_skinned_space" <<a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a>><br>
>> Envoyé: Samedi 11 Juillet 2015 23:21:38<br>
>> Objet: Re: [-empyre-] aslemeur, experimental 3D image, Moscow, July 2015<br>
>><br>
>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br>
>> Hi Anne-Sarah,<br>
>><br>
>> Mistakes are liberation from machines. If you can make a machine make a<br>
>> mistake, it seems you are liberating yourself from it-- as Cocteau's<br>
>> infernal machine implies.<br>
>> Ciao,<br>
>> Murat<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 5:07 AM, <<a href="mailto:aslemeur@free.fr">aslemeur@free.fr</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> > ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br>
>> > Hello !<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Anyone in Moscow ?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I am presenting my interactive cylindrical piece, Beyond-Round, in<br>
>> RuArts<br>
>> > Gallery, until 31th of July,<br>
>> > To Look at and To See, french-russian group exhibition,<br>
>> > with Guillaume Guérin, Christian Lebrat, Alexandra Mitlyanskaya, and<br>
>> > Natalia Smolianskaïa (and myself).<br>
>> > <a href="https://www.facebook.com/ruartsgallery" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/ruartsgallery</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="https://www.facebook.com/ruartsgallery/photos/pcb.10154194139743475/10154194138083475/?type=1&theater" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/ruartsgallery/photos/pcb.10154194139743475/10154194138083475/?type=1&theater</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="https://www.facebook.com/ruartsgallery/photos/a.10152820709668475.1073741837.370920953474/10154189485038475/?type=1&theater" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/ruartsgallery/photos/a.10152820709668475.1073741837.370920953474/10154189485038475/?type=1&theater</a><br>
>> > TV report : <a href="http://mir24.tv/video/12892691" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mir24.tv/video/12892691</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > Beyond-Round (2000 - 2012) is a perception labroratory, where the<br>
>> > spectator is experimenting lack of vision and loss of power, untill s/he<br>
>> > finally understands that the interactive moving image has to be<br>
>> <<tamed>><br>
>> > to be looked at. (I am using peripheral vision and slowness as key<br>
>> elements)<br>
>> > <a href="http://aslemeur.free.fr/projets/outre_r_eng.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://aslemeur.free.fr/projets/outre_r_eng.htm</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="http://www02.zkm.de/videocast/index.php/aktuell/440-anne-sarahlemeurbeyondround.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www02.zkm.de/videocast/index.php/aktuell/440-anne-sarahlemeurbeyondround.html</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://vimeo.com/44651679" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://vimeo.com/44651679</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > and will have a artist talk at Fabrika :<br>
>> > friday 17.07, 4:00-5:30 PM, Artist Talk Anne-Sarah Le Meur, French<br>
>> > animation Festival, Fabrika<br>
>> > <a href="http://www.proektfabrika.ru/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.proektfabrika.ru/</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="http://www.proektfabrika.ru/#events/artist-talk-c-ann-sara-le-merquothudozhnica-v-rezidenciiquot-cti-fabrika" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.proektfabrika.ru/#events/artist-talk-c-ann-sara-le-merquothudozhnica-v-rezidenciiquot-cti-fabrika</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > I will speak on the influence of painting and programming language on<br>
>> > generated 3D images and will present my exploration of unconventional 3D<br>
>> > images.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I would be happy to meet anyone there, or for any occasion somewhere<br>
>> else<br>
>> > in Moscow,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Anne-Sarah Le Meur<br>
>> > Artist, Assistant Professor, Pantheon-Sorbonne Paris 1 University<br>
>> > <a href="http://aslemeur.free.fr/projets/agenda_eng.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://aslemeur.free.fr/projets/agenda_eng.htm</a><br>
>> > **********************************************************************<br>
>> > Anne-Sarah Le Meur is represented by Charlot Gallery, Paris<br>
>> > <a href="http://www.galeriecharlot.com/fr/39/Anne-Sarah-Le-Meur" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.galeriecharlot.com/fr/39/Anne-Sarah-Le-Meur</a><br>
>> > **********************************************************************<br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > empyre forum<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a><br>
>> > <a href="http://empyre.library.cornell.edu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://empyre.library.cornell.edu</a><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> empyre forum<br>
>> <a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a><br>
>> <a href="http://empyre.library.cornell.edu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://empyre.library.cornell.edu</a><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> empyre forum<br>
>> <a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a><br>
>> <a href="http://empyre.library.cornell.edu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://empyre.library.cornell.edu</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> empyre forum<br>
> <a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a><br>
> <a href="http://empyre.library.cornell.edu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://empyre.library.cornell.edu</a><br>
><br>
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