<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Hi Christina,<br><br></div>Yes, you are right. Every mistake is not "inspired." One may select which ones to keep and which ones not after they occur. But this is different from intentionally trying to create mistakes. That I don't think can really happen *Bacon's example, to me, belongs to this category). Creating a work, one is already functioning within a set of ideas. One may work against them, which Bacon was doing with dirty sponges. Sponges may represent an attack on the expected concepts of beauty or art. But that is not a mistake. A mistakes is more like a virus. It derives from inside the system. William Burroughs as a thinker or in his cut-ups represent that approach. John Cage is another example.<br><br></div>Ciao,<br></div>Murat<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 5:23 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:aslemeur@free.fr" target="_blank">aslemeur@free.fr</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br>
Hi Murat<br>
<br>
</span>in fact it can be made involuntary and kept afterwards voluntary, no ?<br>
- as in painting -<br>
you make a voluntary decision after having seen something, or after having made something involuntary<br>
<br>
'bad painting' was made bad on purpose<br>
even F. Bacon voluntary threw dirty sponge on his paintings sometimes - as far as I know<br>
<br>
all resides in the context of the word meaning. technically non perfect or artistically non perfect<br>
<br>
cheers<br>
<br>
as<br>
----- Mail original -----<br>
<span class="">De: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" <<a href="mailto:muratnn@gmail.com">muratnn@gmail.com</a>><br>
À: "soft_skinned_space" <<a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a>><br>
</span>Envoyé: Mercredi 15 Juillet 2015 18:32:51<br>
<span class="">Objet: Re: [-empyre-] aslemeur, experimental 3D image, Moscow, July 2015<br>
<br>
----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br>
Hi Anne-Sarah,<br>
<br>
</span><span class="">I wonder if such a thing as "voluntary imperfection" exists, ambiguous or<br>
otherwise. First, if it is voluntary, it is not an imperfection. Second,<br>
doesn't imperfection imply a loss of control on the maker's side? In<br>
another context (in the essay "Questions of Accent") I describe this as one<br>
being "unable to hear his or her own accent."<br>
<br>
Ciao,<br>
Murat<br>
<br>
</span><div><div class="h5">On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 4:54 AM, <<a href="mailto:aslemeur@free.fr">aslemeur@free.fr</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br>
> Hi there,<br>
><br>
> - If I make a programming mistake, then the program would not work. too<br>
> bad.<br>
> - I can make a 'thinking' programming mistake (I think I code this order,<br>
> but in fact I am coding something else)<br>
> then it works, but not as I thought it would. Should I keep that offer or<br>
> not ?<br>
> It probably depends on the artistic aspect it brings ?<br>
><br>
> here what I like is that the 'thinking' programming mistake - that I very<br>
> often do- are generating artistic visual ... elements,<br>
> unpredicted, surprising, that can enrich the work (conceptualy/visualy...)<br>
><br>
> it can appear as technical mistake to the viewer (or not). depends on the<br>
> level of irreverence/disobedience to the system and its appeal to<br>
> perfection this element includes. or depends too on the artistic element it<br>
> brings.<br>
> I like to be inbetween. so the viewer can ask him/herself if what he/she<br>
> perceives is 'normal'<br>
><br>
> I wonder what tecnological art pieces demonstrate voluntary ambivalent<br>
> imperfections...<br>
> and if 'unfinished' technological art pieces are shown ?<br>
><br>
> regards,<br>
><br>
> Anne-Sarah<br>
> ----- Mail original -----<br>
</div></div>> De: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" <<a href="mailto:muratnn@gmail.com">muratnn@gmail.com</a>><br>
> À: "soft_skinned_space" <<a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a>><br>
<span class="">> Envoyé: Mardi 14 Juillet 2015 22:07:07<br>
> Objet: Re: [-empyre-] aslemeur, experimental 3D image, Moscow, July 2015<br>
><br>
> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br>
> Hi Horea,<br>
><br>
> Actually, we are agreeing. The human (in this instance the artist's)<br>
> inability to control the medium (which the human mind may project as a<br>
> failure of the machine} is exactly what is liberating. With no conscious<br>
> will or intention of the user, it enables the user to transgress the<br>
> logical system, exigencies the machines creates around itself. In one<br>
> sense, the machine "makes a mistakes." In another sense, the machine has<br>
> abilities beyond the human ones.<br>
><br>
> I talk in detail about the importance of the "inefficiences" of the<br>
> technological medium in the creation of art discussing 19th century<br>
> photographic light in my book *The Peripheral Space of Photography (Los<br>
> Angeles: *Green Integer, 2004*).* In an earlier discussion a few months ago<br>
> here, I referred to an interview with the film maker Renoir where he talks<br>
> about the importance of defects in technology in fil (and art in general).<br>
> The interview is on utube.<br>
><br>
> Ciao,<br>
> Murat<br>
><br>
</span>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 7:28 AM, Horea Avram <<a href="mailto:horea.avram@gmail.com">horea.avram@gmail.com</a>><br>
<div><div class="h5">> wrote:<br>
><br>
> > ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br>
> > Hi Murat and Anne-Sarah,<br>
> ><br>
> > I also believe that it is crucial to define what a "mistake" might be in<br>
> > the context of machines or dispositifs.<br>
> > Is the "technological being" (i.e. the machine/dispositif) able to make<br>
> > mistakes? Or mistakes are entirely human being's responsibility?<br>
> ><br>
> > I think mistakes are not liberation from machines (and here I disagree<br>
> > with Murat), but they are intrinsic part of the machines.<br>
> > And by mistakes I mean those technical shortcomings and imperfections in<br>
> > the interaction process, those delays in what should be a real-time<br>
> system,<br>
> > those real-virtual registration and superimposition errors, especially in<br>
> > Augmented Reality and ubiquitous computing devices and applications, etc.<br>
> > These "mistakes", as I see them, not only permit the system function (of<br>
> > course within an estimated and acceptable error range), but they can be<br>
> > seen as a distinctive aesthetic aspect of the technological medium<br>
> > (whatever that is). These flaws can be assumed (especially in artistic<br>
> > projects) as the artist's "trace," or as the tool's "stroke" that can<br>
> > reflect the attributes of the medium(s), the unique play between the<br>
> > accuracy of the machine and our subjective actions, between the<br>
> > transparency of the medium and its reflexive strategy (the flawless<br>
> machine<br>
> > vs. the subjective, "emotional" machine).<br>
> > Isn't this an aspect of the intersubjectivity human-machine/dispositif?<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Horea<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
</div></div><span class="">> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 12:27 PM, <<a href="mailto:aslemeur@free.fr">aslemeur@free.fr</a>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> >> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br>
> >> Hi Murat<br>
> >><br>
> >> so people here are reading extra messages... with links !<br>
> >> good to know !!<br>
> >><br>
> >> thank you for your note.<br>
> >> I guess I have to define what is a 'mistake' :<br>
> >> mistake in my understanding of how to program my interactive rules ?<br>
> >> and more seemingly mistake in the eyes of the viewer...<br>
> >> when the logic seems not logical 'enough'...<br>
> >><br>
> >> I will read Cocteau again...<br>
> >><br>
> >> Have a nice week,<br>
> >><br>
> >> Anne-Sarah<br>
> >> ----- Mail original -----<br>
</span>> >> De: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" <<a href="mailto:muratnn@gmail.com">muratnn@gmail.com</a>><br>
> >> À: "soft_skinned_space" <<a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a>><br>
<span class="">> >> Envoyé: Samedi 11 Juillet 2015 23:21:38<br>
> >> Objet: Re: [-empyre-] aslemeur, experimental 3D image, Moscow, July 2015<br>
> >><br>
> >> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br>
> >> Hi Anne-Sarah,<br>
> >><br>
> >> Mistakes are liberation from machines. If you can make a machine make a<br>
> >> mistake, it seems you are liberating yourself from it-- as Cocteau's<br>
> >> infernal machine implies.<br>
> >> Ciao,<br>
> >> Murat<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
</span><span class="">> >> On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 5:07 AM, <<a href="mailto:aslemeur@free.fr">aslemeur@free.fr</a>> wrote:<br>
> >><br>
> >> > ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br>
> >> > Hello !<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> > Anyone in Moscow ?<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> > I am presenting my interactive cylindrical piece, Beyond-Round, in<br>
> >> RuArts<br>
> >> > Gallery, until 31th of July,<br>
> >> > To Look at and To See, french-russian group exhibition,<br>
> >> > with Guillaume Guérin, Christian Lebrat, Alexandra Mitlyanskaya, and<br>
> >> > Natalia Smolianskaïa (and myself).<br>
> >> > <a href="https://www.facebook.com/ruartsgallery" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/ruartsgallery</a><br>
> >> ><br>
> >> ><br>
> >><br>
</span>> <a href="https://www.facebook.com/ruartsgallery/photos/pcb.10154194139743475/10154194138083475/?type=1&theater" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/ruartsgallery/photos/pcb.10154194139743475/10154194138083475/?type=1&theater</a><br>
<span class="">> >> ><br>
> >> ><br>
> >><br>
> <a href="https://www.facebook.com/ruartsgallery/photos/a.10152820709668475.1073741837.370920953474/10154189485038475/?type=1&theater" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/ruartsgallery/photos/a.10152820709668475.1073741837.370920953474/10154189485038475/?type=1&theater</a><br>
> >> > TV report : <a href="http://mir24.tv/video/12892691" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mir24.tv/video/12892691</a><br>
> >> ><br>
</span><span class="">> >> > Beyond-Round (2000 - 2012) is a perception labroratory, where the<br>
> >> > spectator is experimenting lack of vision and loss of power, untill<br>
> s/he<br>
> >> > finally understands that the interactive moving image has to be<br>
> >> <<tamed>><br>
> >> > to be looked at. (I am using peripheral vision and slowness as key<br>
> >> elements)<br>
> >> > <a href="http://aslemeur.free.fr/projets/outre_r_eng.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://aslemeur.free.fr/projets/outre_r_eng.htm</a><br>
> >> ><br>
> >> ><br>
> >><br>
</span>> <a href="http://www02.zkm.de/videocast/index.php/aktuell/440-anne-sarahlemeurbeyondround.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www02.zkm.de/videocast/index.php/aktuell/440-anne-sarahlemeurbeyondround.html</a><br>
<span class="">> >> > <a href="https://vimeo.com/44651679" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://vimeo.com/44651679</a><br>
> >> ><br>
> >> > and will have a artist talk at Fabrika :<br>
> >> > friday 17.07, 4:00-5:30 PM, Artist Talk Anne-Sarah Le Meur, French<br>
> >> > animation Festival, Fabrika<br>
> >> > <a href="http://www.proektfabrika.ru/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.proektfabrika.ru/</a><br>
> >> ><br>
> >> ><br>
> >><br>
</span><span class="">> <a href="http://www.proektfabrika.ru/#events/artist-talk-c-ann-sara-le-merquothudozhnica-v-rezidenciiquot-cti-fabrika" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.proektfabrika.ru/#events/artist-talk-c-ann-sara-le-merquothudozhnica-v-rezidenciiquot-cti-fabrika</a><br>
> >> ><br>
> >> > I will speak on the influence of painting and programming language on<br>
> >> > generated 3D images and will present my exploration of unconventional<br>
> 3D<br>
> >> > images.<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> > I would be happy to meet anyone there, or for any occasion somewhere<br>
> >> else<br>
> >> > in Moscow,<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> > Anne-Sarah Le Meur<br>
> >> > Artist, Assistant Professor, Pantheon-Sorbonne Paris 1 University<br>
> >> > <a href="http://aslemeur.free.fr/projets/agenda_eng.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://aslemeur.free.fr/projets/agenda_eng.htm</a><br>
</span><span class="">> >> > **********************************************************************<br>
> >> > Anne-Sarah Le Meur is represented by Charlot Gallery, Paris<br>
> >> > <a href="http://www.galeriecharlot.com/fr/39/Anne-Sarah-Le-Meur" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.galeriecharlot.com/fr/39/Anne-Sarah-Le-Meur</a><br>
</span><span class="">> >> > **********************************************************************<br>
> >> > _______________________________________________<br>
> >> > empyre forum<br>
> >> > <a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a><br>
</span><span class="">> >> > <a href="http://empyre.library.cornell.edu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://empyre.library.cornell.edu</a><br>
> >><br>
> >> _______________________________________________<br>
> >> empyre forum<br>
</span>> >> <a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a><br>
<span class="">> >> <a href="http://empyre.library.cornell.edu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://empyre.library.cornell.edu</a><br>
> >> _______________________________________________<br>
> >> empyre forum<br>
</span>> >> <a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a><br>
<span class="">> >> <a href="http://empyre.library.cornell.edu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://empyre.library.cornell.edu</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > empyre forum<br>
</span>> > <a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a><br>
<span class="">> > <a href="http://empyre.library.cornell.edu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://empyre.library.cornell.edu</a><br>
> ><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> empyre forum<br>
</span>> <a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a><br>
<span class="">> <a href="http://empyre.library.cornell.edu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://empyre.library.cornell.edu</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> empyre forum<br>
</span>> <a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a><br>
<span class="">> <a href="http://empyre.library.cornell.edu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://empyre.library.cornell.edu</a><br>
><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
empyre forum<br>
</span><a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a><br>
<span class=""><a href="http://empyre.library.cornell.edu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://empyre.library.cornell.edu</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
empyre forum<br>
</span><a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a><br>
<a href="http://empyre.library.cornell.edu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://empyre.library.cornell.edu</a></blockquote></div><br></div>