<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div>Chris, I apologize for my delayed response. I wanted to mull over your observations before I responded. You touchon issues that are important to me:<br><br>".... <span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(112,48,160)">Poetry in oral and written
forms has developed a history, we must presume, because it appeals to deeply
ingrained human sensibilities with its often metrical presentation of language
that pleases the reader’s emotion, intellect, and imagination. A
large audience might consume a technologically complex digital poem produced as
a video game, but that text is going to be vastly different from
something in the anthologies heretofore published by W. W. Norton. Given a new
set of stimuli—a slower pace of presentation, materials absorbed as words
and artwork—the typical video-game audience might change its tastes, but I
do not see those radically different modes ever conjoining in titles that
reach a high level of popularity in mass culture...."<br><br></span>I think here you are making two very important points. First, perhaps non-digital poetry and digital poetry are two completely different genres. To apply the same word "poetry" to both is a misnomer and mis-charaterises both of them. It leads to confusion and misunderstanding of either. I tend to agree with that evaluation. <br><br></div><div>Second, the importance of speed in understanding the digital medium. Speed is at the heart of everything that happens there. It is a component of its value. On the other hand, speed is antithetical to poetry, particularly reading it. That is I think the chasm that ultimately separates them.<br><br>"<span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(112,48,160)"> don’t know if you ever saw my follow-up book, <i>New Directions in Digital Poetry</i>? (If
not, I can send a pdf)). I present a couple of case studies about games. The
first paragraph of the book speaks fairly directly to your concern, I think:</span><span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(112,48,160)"> ... </span><span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(112,48,160)">Upon study they begin
to understand</span>
<span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(112,48,160)"></span><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;line-height:normal" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(112,48,160)">how digital poetry functions as something
other than poetry</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;line-height:normal" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(112,48,160)">presented on a computer, involving processes
beyond those used</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;line-height:normal" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(112,48,160)">by print-based writers, and that poetry made
with computers has</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;line-height:normal" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(112,48,160)">unusual qualities – representing something
inventive and worthy</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;line-height:normal" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(112,48,160)">of engagement."</span></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;line-height:normal" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(112,48,160)"><br></span></p></div><span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(112,48,160)"></span>Yes, I would appreciate it very much if you can send me a pdf copy of <i>New</i> <i>Directions in Digital Poetry</i>.<br><br>I think the last part of the quote is reaching a similar conclusion that finally digital poetry is not like poetry of before but a completely new genre in a new medium. The same process occurred at the invention of photography when it was first consider a kind of "painting" usuping some of the representational functions of the latter; but a completely new genre in a new medium. That is what The Peripheral Space of Photography is all about.<br><br><br>",,,<span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(112,48,160)">Digital works disappear for various reasons
all the time. Some of my all-time favorite works and tools are no longer
accessible—so, yes, this is a type of failure!..."<br><br></span>Yes, this is the kind of failure I am talking about --digital works' Aechilles' heel, so to speak; as opposed to a technical or artistic failure that can be corrected by tweaking or through practice. <br><br>"... <span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(112,48,160)">The idea of perfection is in the eye of the beholder!</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif;color:rgb(112,48,160)"> "</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif"><br><br></span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif">You mean perfection is what we used to call beauty?☺</span> <br><br>"<span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(112,48,160)">Essentially, yes. For instance, with some of
the MIDI work, I have a database full of words or phrases, and when a note on
the guitar is struck, one of the many words or phrases is selected. No
particular order is imposed, & things like this can be programmed not to
repeat. Thus the experience will be different every time. There are a lot of
pieces of e-lit like this. Even if the overall structure of the work is fixed/functioning,
what happens within it isn’t."<br><br></span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif">I watched Eli [?] which I liked a lot and which I rthink is created through the program MIDI. I would not call the effect of the way in which letters and morsels of texts (sometimes "randomly" underlined) appearing on the screen random; but rather I'd call them witty and surprising. I would not call them random because the letters' and texts' appearances and movements on the screen has a musical, syncopating effect which is the reverse of random. <br><br>"</span><br><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(112,48,160)">With regard to Cecil, there are usually ornate
structures or outlines that he & his groups work with. These are not
written out like Mozart, but certainly exist (as diagrams on paper, as you may
have seen at the Whitney exhibit?). If I’m working with a writing program (an
algorithm that makes poetry), or whatever, I can improvise in that I can enter
spontaneous, unpremeditated input, & the machine will do what it has been
told to do with it (maybe containing random elements, maybe not).</span></p>
<span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(112,48,160)">I’m sure I didn’t cover everything, but that’s
what I have for now, OK, cf"<br><br></span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif">I can see the ambiguity in the argument. What you say is true about Cecil, but also, I am told, each performance is different even with the same outlines. You are doing something similar yourself by introducing unpremeditated output. On the other hand is the "ornate structures" Cecil starts with the same, as predetermined, as the programed machine you start with.<br><br></span></div><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif">Chris, thanks. You covered a lot.<br><br></span></div><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif">Ciao,<br></span></div><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"times new roman",serif">Murat<br></span></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 10:49 AM, Macon Reed <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:swapmeetproject@gmail.com" target="_blank">swapmeetproject@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br>Hello,<div>I have tried to write the moderator to find out how to unsubscribe to this list but haven't heard back, maybe I have the wrong email? There is so much great conversation here, I just have too much email to keep up with. If anyone can tell me how to unsubscribe, Id really appreciate it.</div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Macon<br><br>On Monday, November 28, 2016, Funkhouser, Christopher T. <<a href="mailto:christopher.t.funkhouser@njit.edu" target="_blank">christopher.t.funkhouser@<wbr>njit.edu</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------</blockquote></div><br><br>-- <br>Sent from Gmail Mobile<br>
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