<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Thanks, Luke and Garrett, for this discussion.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I agree about the shortcomings in reducing operational to optical. If anything, the foregrounding of the operation of coding and transcoding should heighten our awareness of the mechanical and chemical operations to capture and render analogue images.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’ve been interested in new media (for lack of a better term) documentaries (also for lack of a better term) that instruct users in how data is tagged, sorted, and rendered into information, as well as the structural limitations to the kinds of information that can be rendered.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’ve also been interested in documentaries that emerge in different iterations, conforming to the limitations of a particular venue but then morphing for other venues. This variation also seems important as a mode of instruction that teaches critical practices of “interacting” with digital media. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In terms of documentary’s relationship with the visual, I have colleagues who work in documentary poetry and theater. For them written or audio testimony is a document. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I am interested to know what people think (or whether people think) of code as a “document.” </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best,</div><div class="">Dale</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Apr 14, 2018, at 18:19, Garrett Lynch <<a href="mailto:lists@asquare.org" class="">lists@asquare.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------</span><div dir="ltr" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">>my point about timecodes was less about the micro-constraints setup by a platform, <div class="">>and more about the way limited timecodes gesture towards broader understandings </div><div class="">>of what documentary is, what form it takes, what its purpose is, and so on. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Yes so we are saying similar things - these are the assumptions we (Frédérique and myself) mentioned on the part of programmers building the web players. Couldn't agree more that we build atop what we have, web players being re-skinned, their code being reused is exactly that. We have submitted to film festivals and as you mentioned limited understand that takes the form of fixed formats, no longer than ten minutes etc., have eliminated us from submitting to many but we knew making the film/video that those platforms wouldn't necessarily be for us. Our main issue was not so much length but first and foremost the format of it being shown in a cinema style setting. Best of Luck needs the possibility of dipping in and out, watching as much or as little as you need as Dale mentioned. We were however pleasantly surprised that there were more opportunities to submit to than in previous years - so all in all understanding of expanded film/video formats does seem to be opening up a little. Neither of us are by any means deeply involved in documentary so whether this is true for documentary film festivals we can't say.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">>I would also venture that the requirement to 'educate' you mentioned is also one based </div><div class="">>on this genealogy. ;-)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">True but we think there needs to be some absolute baseline for defining documentary whether it's 'traditional', new media etc. and this is where we agree with your initial comments about its role.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">>documentary is embedded in a lineage of optical media</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Is documentary embedded in the optical? Again, we are by no means specialised in documentary new media is our area of expertise, but it seems to us stating that documentary is visual is a little like stating new media is interactive. Yes a lot is, perhaps the majority, but there is non-visual documentary and non-interactive new media (e.g. generative). Somebody on the list who is an expert in documentary needs to chime in here because we certainly can't give examples of non-visual documentary but do seem to have come accross examples of what we would have said was documentary - particularly in sonic compositions/work.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">>'new media' (hate that term) might instead focus on the operational. As mentioned, </div><div class="">>life today increasingly seems structured by the operational logics of technologies, </div><div class="">>operations which are complex, ubiquitous and largely unseen. What would it mean </div><div class="">>to document such operations, and how might these documents elude the constraints </div><div class="">>of the visible? <br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The best of a bad lot of terms as at least it focuses on qualities that were not present in established media but are in new media. Most others terms focus on format/platform etc. which is even more problematic. Documenting the operational logic of technologies seems like a really interesting idea for a documentary in itself. Several artists have worked with this. Perhaps some sort of an Adam Curtis, neoliberal, dystopian look at McLuhanism gone very wrong :)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">>Atlantic's recent article on stock photo depictions of Bitcoin, "because there's </div><div class="">>nothing better than images of collectible coins, stage props, miniatures, and </div><div class="">>professional models to convey the intricacies of a distributed, decentralized,</div><div class="">> encrypted digital asset functioning as a virtual currency."</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">That or green 1's and 0's on a black background! I'll have to track this down for myself as it sounds an interesting read.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 11:58 PM, Luke Munn<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:luke.munn@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">luke.munn@gmail.com</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Hey Garrett,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks for the comments, nice to get a little back and forth going. A brief response from my end....</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I agree that artists/creatives/whoever shouldn't be limited by what documentary is defined as. At the same time, we build atop what we have, and artistic practice stems out of a genealogy of other practices. So my point about timecodes was less about the micro-constraints setup by a platform, and more about the way limited timecodes gesture towards broader understandings of what documentary is, what form it takes, what its purpose is, and so on. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If you attempted to submit your work to a traditional documentary film festival, for example, these limited understandings might come out as institutional or distributional imperatives, rather than technical limitations. These assumptions might be that it is a 'film', made by a single human 'director', which can be watched by an 'audience' from start to finish. I would also venture that the requirement to 'educate' you mentioned is also one based on this genealogy. ;-)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">All this to say that documentary is embedded in a lineage of optical media, and that we don't have to intentionally emulate this legacy to nevertheless be unconsciously and automatically conditioned by it.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Which brings me back to the limits of the optical, and how 'new media' (hate that term) might instead focus on the operational. As mentioned, life today increasingly seems structured by the operational logics of technologies, operations which are complex, ubiquitous and largely unseen. What would it mean to document such operations, and how might these documents elude the constraints of the visible? </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I'm thinking of the Atlantic's recent article on stock photo depictions of Bitcoin, "because there's nothing better than images of collectible coins, stage props, miniatures, and professional models to convey the intricacies of a distributed, decentralized, encrypted digital asset functioning as a virtual currency." Or for an earlier example, perhaps Sergei Eisenstein's 20 pages of notes for how to film 'Capital'. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Both of these cases, it seems, are attempts to ring-fence the multi-scalar structures and distributed performances of the operational into the bounded space and time of the optical. Both of these subjects are fascinating, imho, but this shoehorning of the operational into the optical seems like it misses out on much of this complexity. These kind of subjects need more scrutiny, but they also need dynamic new forms to accommodate them. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">best,</div><div class="">Luke</div></div></blockquote></div><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">regards</div><div dir="ltr" class="">Garrett</div><div dir="ltr" class="">_________________</div><div dir="ltr" class=""><a href="mailto:Garrett@asquare.org" target="_blank" class="">Garrett@asquare.org</a></div><div dir="ltr" class=""><a href="http://www.asquare.org/" target="_blank" class="">http://www.asquare.org/</a></div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Current events and soon:</div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">Real Virtuality The Networked Art of Garrett Lynch:</div><div dir="ltr" class=""><a href="http://realvirtuality.peripheralforms.com/" target="_blank" class="">http://realvirtuality.peripheralforms.com/</a></div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">A network of people who attended an exhibition and contributed to the creation of this work</div><div dir="ltr" class=""><a href="http://asquare.org/work/peoplenetwork/" target="_blank" class="">http://asquare.org/work/peoplenetwork/</a></div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">Pick up a postcard and participate at any of the following galleries: Aksioma Institute for Contemporary Art (Ljubljana, Slovenia), Bannister Gallery (Rhode Island, USA), Centro ADM (Mexico City, Mexico), Centro de Cultura Digital (Mexico City, Mexico), Gallery XY (Olomouc, Czech Republic), Gedok (Stuttgart, Germany), Guest Room (North Carolina, USA), Human Ecosystems (Rome, Italy), Kunst Museum (Stuttgart, Germany), Laboratorio Arte Alameda (Mexico City, Mexico), Le Wonder (Bagnolet, France), MUTE (Lisbon, Portugal), NYU Art Gallery (Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates), Open Signal (Portland, USA), Plymouth Arts Centre (Plymouth, England), The Gallery at Plymouth College of Art (Plymouth, England), Transfer Gallery (New York, USA), Upfor Gallery (Portland, USA), Watermans (London, England), Wilhelmspalais (Stuttgart, Germany), WOWA (Riccione, Italy), ZKM | Center for Art and Media (Karlsruhe, Germany)</div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">Garrett Lynch: A network of people @ Galerie XY (Olomouc, Czech Republic) 9 - 13/04/2018</div><div dir="ltr" class=""><a href="https://www.facebook.com/events/177492866199740/" target="_blank" class="">https://www.facebook.com/events/177492866199740/</a></div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">Best of Luck with the Wall (variant) @ European Media Art Festival, Report - notes from reality (Osnabrueck, Germany) 18/04 - 21/05/2018</div><div dir="ltr" class=""><a href="https://www.emaf.de/en/index.html" target="_blank" class="">https://www.emaf.de/en/index.html</a></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; 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