<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Hi Murat</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">I didn't say or suggest in any manner that code was neutral. In fact if you read the last post I sent to the list you will see I referred to code in scenarios that don't rely on users e.g. generative, algorithmic etc. These both imply that code can't be neutral, can't be simply for communicating.</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">What I said was that document, which I was defining as not the same as code, is a dumbed down term because it is often used to refer outwards/backwards to analogue media as a comparison in order to facilitate communicating - just like when we talk of our computer desktops they refer by analogy to a physical/'real' desktop.</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Hope this makes sense.<br><br><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">regards<br>Garrett<br>_________________<br><a></a><a href="mailto:Garrett@asquare.org" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="link" x-apple-data-detectors-result="3">Garrett@asquare.org</a><br><a href="http://www.asquare.org/" target="_blank">http://www.asquare.org/</a><br></span></div><div><br>On 16 Apr 2018, at 19:00, Murat Nemet-Nejat <<a href="mailto:muratnn@gmail.com">muratnn@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------</span></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Hi Garrett,<div><br></div><div>"...<span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"> </span><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px">Document in new media is simply an agreed dumbed down term for the benefit of communicating - similar to desktop as I mentioned and one of my own best loved/most hated, 'virtual'..."</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px">Your description has the kind of naivety that often plagued the thinking around digital technology. A code is not a neutral term denoting merely convenience ("simply... a dumbed down term for the benefit of communicating..." ) but a structure of knowledge (and potentially of power) with epistemological, social, political consequences. "Convenience" has often turned out to be a bait, a Trojan horse.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px">Ciao,</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px">Murat</span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 11:12 AM, Dale Hudson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dmh2018@nyu.edu" target="_blank">dmh2018@nyu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div>Excellent point, Garrett. </div><div><br></div><div>I’m interested in this shift from analogue to digital when document no longer become as significant as code. I’m wondering whether it help move discussion on documentary away from representation towards operation. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Apr 16, 2018, at 13:07, Garrett Lynch <<a href="mailto:garrett@asquare.org" target="_blank">garrett@asquare.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_-6964260734125193231Apple-interchange-newline"><div><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------</span><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="m_-6964260734125193231gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>For us, code is not a document. Document suggests a singular 'thing' or at least a group of things in proximity and closely held together. The nature of code is that it can't be thought of as a document, physical or 'real' analogies don't work well. Even the simplest type of code, say for example HTML (which is technically not code but has some of the same qualities) incorporates whole other 'documents' (e.g. images), parts of other documents (e.g. classes and functions) and those can be distributed anywhere when you factor in a network. Document in new media is simply an agreed dumbed down term for the benefit of communicating - similar to desktop as I mentioned and one of my own best loved/most hated, 'virtual'.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 6:34 PM, Dale Hudson <<a href="mailto:dmh2018@nyu.edu" target="_blank">dmh2018@nyu.edu</a>> wrote:</div><div>----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------</div><div>Thanks, Luke and Garrett, for this discussion.</div><div><br></div><div>I agree about the shortcomings in reducing operational to optical. If anything, the foregrounding of the operation of coding and transcoding should heighten our awareness of the mechanical and chemical operations to capture and render analogue images.</div><div><br></div><div>I’ve been interested in new media (for lack of a better term) documentaries (also for lack of a better term) that instruct users in how data is tagged, sorted, and rendered into information, as well as the structural limitations to the kinds of information that can be rendered.</div><div><br></div><div>I’ve also been interested in documentaries that emerge in different iterations, conforming to the limitations of a particular venue but then morphing for other venues. This variation also seems important as a mode of instruction that teaches critical practices of “interacting” with digital media. </div><div><br></div><div>In terms of documentary’s relationship with the visual, I have colleagues who work in documentary poetry and theater. For them written or audio testimony is a document. </div><div><br></div><div>I am interested to know what people think (or whether people think) of code as a “document.” </div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Dale</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>-- </div><div>regards</div><div>Garrett</div><div>_________________</div><div><a href="mailto:Garrett@asquare.org" target="_blank">Garrett@asquare.org</a></div><div><a href="http://www.asquare.org/" target="_blank">http://www.asquare.org/</a></div><div><br></div><div>Current events and soon:</div><div><br></div><div>Real Virtuality The Networked Art of Garrett Lynch:</div><div><a href="http://realvirtuality.peripheralforms.com/" target="_blank">http://realvirtuality.<wbr>peripheralforms.com/</a></div><div><br></div><div>A network of people who attended an exhibition and contributed to the creation of this work</div><div><a href="http://asquare.org/work/peoplenetwork/" target="_blank">http://asquare.org/work/<wbr>peoplenetwork/</a></div><div><br></div><div>Pick up a postcard and participate at any of the following galleries: Aksioma Institute for Contemporary Art (Ljubljana, Slovenia), Bannister Gallery (Rhode Island, USA), Centro ADM (Mexico City, Mexico), Centro de Cultura Digital (Mexico City, Mexico), Gallery XY (Olomouc, Czech Republic), Gedok (Stuttgart, Germany), Guest Room (North Carolina, USA), Human Ecosystems (Rome, Italy), Kunst Museum (Stuttgart, Germany), Laboratorio Arte Alameda (Mexico City, Mexico), Le Wonder (Bagnolet, France), MUTE (Lisbon, Portugal), NYU Art Gallery (Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates), Open Signal (Portland, USA), Plymouth Arts Centre (Plymouth, England), The Gallery at Plymouth College of Art (Plymouth, England), Transfer Gallery (New York, USA), Upfor Gallery (Portland, USA), Watermans (London, England), Wilhelmspalais (Stuttgart, Germany), WOWA (Riccione, Italy), ZKM | Center for Art and Media (Karlsruhe, Germany)</div><div><br></div><div>Best of Luck with the Wall (variant) @ European Media Art Festival, Report - notes from reality (Osnabrueck, Germany) 18/04 - 21/05/2018</div><div><a href="https://www.emaf.de/en/index.html" target="_blank">https://www.emaf.de/en/index.<wbr>html</a></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">______________________________<wbr>_________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">empyre forum</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.<wbr>edu.au</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><a href="http://empyre.library.cornell.edu/" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">http://empyre.library.cornell.<wbr>edu</a></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
empyre forum<br>
<a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.<wbr>edu.au</a><br>
<a href="http://empyre.library.cornell.edu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://empyre.library.cornell.<wbr>edu</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>empyre forum</span><br><span><a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a></span><br><span><a href="http://empyre.library.cornell.edu">http://empyre.library.cornell.edu</a></span></div></blockquote></body></html>