<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Thanks, Murat.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">I agree with your point that the surveillants are more adept that the disrupters. The disruptions become more data for machine learning.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Interesting interpretation of the current US president as “digital." Some people appreciate the “transparency” that he brings to US foreign (and maybe also domestic) policy by not camouflaging it in pretenses of concern for any of the so-called American values. </div><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My question about documentary, then, would be if documents don’t exist in the digital sense, should we be rethinking the term documentary? Or can it rain as a legacy term or term of convenience like “film”?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Is there something different in engaging with digital media, even in the sense of screening a video, than engaging with pre-digital media? Or is it only different when the engagement involves user acts to control the images on the screen in some way?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best,</div><div class="">Dale<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Apr 17, 2018, at 18:34, Murat Nemet-Nejat <<a href="mailto:muratnn@gmail.com" class="">muratnn@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<div dir="ltr" class="">Hi Dale,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">"... <span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class="">We’ve included projects in past <span class="" id=":1md.1" tabindex="-1" style="">FLEFF</span> exhibitions that attempt to disrupt this surveillance by flooding with bogus data. "</span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class="">Let me try to elaborate: "bogus data," is that not essentially the very opposite of a document? In the <span class="" id=":1md.2" tabindex="-1" style="">pre</span>-digital universe (I do not use the word "analog" because the word has developed an aura (or rather a stink) of condescension in the hands of the digital champions. "Document" implied an authenticity, a <span class="" id=":1md.3" tabindex="-1" style="">thereness</span>. A "doctored document" is a relatively finite object, a much more serious transgression than "false data." In the <span class="" id=":1md.4" tabindex="-1" style="">pre</span>-digital world, one can sustain a concept of "the original" even if only as an ideal. In the digital world that distinction (between the unreal and real, true and false) is diluted to the point of disappearance. We are surrounded with false data like the air. We don't even notice it, as the events of the last election in the States (and our president) clearly demonstrates. We can call Trump our first full blown digital, not because he tweets a lot; but because he makes no distinction between what is a fact (provable as a document) and what is not. The forces fighting him are all <span class="" id=":1md.5" tabindex="-1" style="">pre</span>-digital, specifically the law (where documentary proof is an absolute value) and the press (where fact-checking has a similar function). Let's see who will win.</span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class="">One can see the same tension comparing camera obscure photography and <span class="" id=":1md.6" tabindex="-1" style="">photoshop</span>. In the former, the created image has a certain independence because the power of of the lens or the photographer was never absolute. Light moves in mysterious, not totally controllable ways, the photographer makes errors, the image contains cracks, fissures, ambiguities, often <span class="" id=":1md.7" tabindex="-1" style="">undreamt</span> of by the photographer, into which the view can enter and his/her mind is liberated by them. <span class="" id=":1md.8" tabindex="-1" style="">Photoshop</span> gives the photographer absolute power, in color, in focus, etc., etc. As a result, its value as document --and I will claim as art-- diminishes and finally disappears like the grin of the Cheshire Cat.</span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class="">Digital data (and its codes) are the "capital," the controlling means of production in the 21rst century. Its ownership is the center of controlling power. The power it confers to its owner is infinitely greater than the power the ownership of factories or railroads, etc., for example, gave to 19th century tycoons. Because, finally, what it controls is not only wealth (though that is undoubtedly a big motivating factor); but it controls reality, <u class="">almost</u> absolutely, "liberating" it from facts.</span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class="">"</span><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class="">We’ve included projects in past <span class="" id=":1md.10" tabindex="-1" style="">FLEFF</span> exhibitions that attempt to disrupt this surveillance by flooding with bogus data."</span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class="">Dale, unfortunately the surveillants are much more adept at "bogus data" than the disruptors. I wonder a dadaist disruption is enough in our present condition. Basically, can one fight lies with lies? I think a critical mind, seeing chaff separate from fact, is absolutely essential.</span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class="">Ciao,</span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class="">Murat</span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 5:39 AM, Garrett Lynch <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:garrett@asquare.org" target="_blank" class="">garrett@asquare.org</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="">Hi Murat</div><div id="m_6169948100437221108AppleMailSignature" class=""><br class=""></div><div id="m_6169948100437221108AppleMailSignature" class="">I didn't say or suggest in any manner that code was neutral. In fact if you read the last post I sent to the list you will see I referred to code in scenarios that don't rely on users e.g. generative, algorithmic etc. These both imply that code can't be neutral, can't be simply for communicating.</div><div id="m_6169948100437221108AppleMailSignature" class=""><br class=""></div><div id="m_6169948100437221108AppleMailSignature" class="">What I said was that document, which I was defining as not the same as code, is a dumbed down term because it is often used to refer outwards/backwards to analogue media as a comparison in order to facilitate communicating - just like when we talk of our computer desktops they refer by analogy to a physical/'real' desktop.</div><div id="m_6169948100437221108AppleMailSignature" class=""><br class=""></div><div id="m_6169948100437221108AppleMailSignature" class="">Hope this makes sense.<br class=""><br class=""><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" class="">regards<br class="">Garrett<br class="">_________________<br class=""><a class=""></a><a href="mailto:Garrett@asquare.org" target="_blank" class="">Garrett@asquare.org</a><br class=""><a href="http://www.asquare.org/" target="_blank" class="">http://www.asquare.org/</a><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><br class="">On 16 Apr 2018, at 19:00, Murat Nemet-Nejat <<a href="mailto:muratnn@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">muratnn@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><span class="">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------</span></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Hi Garrett,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">"...<span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class=""> </span><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class="">Document in new media is simply an agreed dumbed down term for the benefit of communicating - similar to desktop as I mentioned and one of my own best loved/most hated, 'virtual'..."</span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class="">Your description has the kind of naivety that often plagued the thinking around digital technology. A code is not a neutral term denoting merely convenience ("simply... a dumbed down term for the benefit of communicating..." ) but a structure of knowledge (and potentially of power) with epistemological, social, political consequences. "Convenience" has often turned out to be a bait, a Trojan horse.</span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class="">Ciao,</span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px" class="">Murat</span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 11:12 AM, Dale Hudson <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:dmh2018@nyu.edu" target="_blank" class="">dmh2018@nyu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br class=""><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><div class="">Excellent point, Garrett. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’m interested in this shift from analogue to digital when document no longer become as significant as code. I’m wondering whether it help move discussion on documentary away from representation towards operation. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Apr 16, 2018, at 13:07, Garrett Lynch <<a href="mailto:garrett@asquare.org" target="_blank" class="">garrett@asquare.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_6169948100437221108m_-6964260734125193231Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important" class="">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------</span><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="m_6169948100437221108m_-6964260734125193231gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">For us, code is not a document. Document suggests a singular 'thing' or at least a group of things in proximity and closely held together. The nature of code is that it can't be thought of as a document, physical or 'real' analogies don't work well. Even the simplest type of code, say for example HTML (which is technically not code but has some of the same qualities) incorporates whole other 'documents' (e.g. images), parts of other documents (e.g. classes and functions) and those can be distributed anywhere when you factor in a network. Document in new media is simply an agreed dumbed down term for the benefit of communicating - similar to desktop as I mentioned and one of my own best loved/most hated, 'virtual'.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 6:34 PM, Dale Hudson <<a href="mailto:dmh2018@nyu.edu" target="_blank" class="">dmh2018@nyu.edu</a>> wrote:</div><div class="">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------</div><div class="">Thanks, Luke and Garrett, for this discussion.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I agree about the shortcomings in reducing operational to optical. If anything, the foregrounding of the operation of coding and transcoding should heighten our awareness of the mechanical and chemical operations to capture and render analogue images.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’ve been interested in new media (for lack of a better term) documentaries (also for lack of a better term) that instruct users in how data is tagged, sorted, and rendered into information, as well as the structural limitations to the kinds of information that can be rendered.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’ve also been interested in documentaries that emerge in different iterations, conforming to the limitations of a particular venue but then morphing for other venues. This variation also seems important as a mode of instruction that teaches critical practices of “interacting” with digital media. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In terms of documentary’s relationship with the visual, I have colleagues who work in documentary poetry and theater. For them written or audio testimony is a document. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I am interested to know what people think (or whether people think) of code as a “document.” </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best,</div><div class="">Dale</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-- </div><div class="">regards</div><div class="">Garrett</div><div class="">_________________</div><div class=""><a href="mailto:Garrett@asquare.org" target="_blank" class="">Garrett@asquare.org</a></div><div class=""><a href="http://www.asquare.org/" target="_blank" class="">http://www.asquare.org/</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Current events and soon:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Real Virtuality The Networked Art of Garrett Lynch:</div><div class=""><a href="http://realvirtuality.peripheralforms.com/" target="_blank" class="">http://realvirtuality.peripher<wbr class="">alforms.com/</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">A network of people who attended an exhibition and contributed to the creation of this work</div><div class=""><a href="http://asquare.org/work/peoplenetwork/" target="_blank" class="">http://asquare.org/work/people<wbr class="">network/</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Pick up a postcard and participate at any of the following galleries: Aksioma Institute for Contemporary Art (Ljubljana, Slovenia), Bannister Gallery (Rhode Island, USA), Centro ADM (Mexico City, Mexico), Centro de Cultura Digital (Mexico City, Mexico), Gallery XY (Olomouc, Czech Republic), Gedok (Stuttgart, Germany), Guest Room (North Carolina, USA), Human Ecosystems (Rome, Italy), Kunst Museum (Stuttgart, Germany), Laboratorio Arte Alameda (Mexico City, Mexico), Le Wonder (Bagnolet, France), MUTE (Lisbon, Portugal), NYU Art Gallery (Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates), Open Signal (Portland, USA), Plymouth Arts Centre (Plymouth, England), The Gallery at Plymouth College of Art (Plymouth, England), Transfer Gallery (New York, USA), Upfor Gallery (Portland, USA), Watermans (London, England), Wilhelmspalais (Stuttgart, Germany), WOWA (Riccione, Italy), ZKM | Center for Art and Media (Karlsruhe, Germany)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best of Luck with the Wall (variant) @ European Media Art Festival, Report - notes from reality (Osnabrueck, Germany) 18/04 - 21/05/2018</div><div class=""><a href="https://www.emaf.de/en/index.html" target="_blank" class="">https://www.emaf.de/en/index.h<wbr class="">tml</a></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important" class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important" class="">empyre forum</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class=""><a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" class="">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.ed<wbr class="">u.au</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class=""><a href="http://empyre.library.cornell.edu/" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" class="">http://empyre.library.cornell.<wbr class="">edu</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></div><br class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
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