<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">When i hear the words <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div id="d_1528906797927" class="" style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">humans are like an infection.</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I reach for my gun, and prepare for fascism….because this opens the door for culling the human race, for murder of others and for hating ourselves…..how will we ever build a revolutionary transformation of our worlds if we hate ourselves !!! </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Its such a dangerous thought, the problem of ecology is NOT humans.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The problem is a small amount of humans maybe 15 % at most (the rich, the elites, the hyper consumer classes - mostly in the north of the world) who are forced by a SYSTEM - industrial capitalism to consume, to destroy, to commodify life !! </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">INDUSTRIAL CAPITALISM IS AN INFECTION </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">When i hear the words </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">WILD</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I reach for the bacteria in my gut and realise its a fantasy</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Most anthropology shows us that the notion of WILD is a totally western concept… most of our human time on this planet - remember 98.9 percent of our time on this planet we were hunter gatherers - we did not separate nature from the human, and we did not have a notion of nature as different or pure or outside of us. Most forest peoples gardened the forest, the western eye came and saw wild untouched forest, the locals knew the territory, modified it and helped it become more abundant for them…. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">love and rage JJ</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 13 Jun 2018, at 18:19, Julien Ottavi <<a href="mailto:julien@apo33.org" class="">julien@apo33.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------</span><div id="d_1528906797927" style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">humans are like an infection.</div><div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">Even the concept of nature is wrong and the forest where we found lots of fungus is made up by humans. The wild forest before is used to be reculated by humans where much more wild and what we could nature used to be wild for humans.</div><div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">Whats is the problem with infected humans with fungus? Why are we so attracted to used mycelium? what art have to say to this domain? what artists have to bring to the debate in the mycelium research to save the planet or to change the course of the destruction of our world?</div><br class=""><div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">more questions could be raised on this matter but here few of them.</div><br class=""><div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">cheers</div><div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">Julien</div><div id="signature-x" style="-webkit-user-select: none; font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Sent from<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.9folders.com/" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 155, 223);" class="">Nine</a></div></div><div class="quoted_separate_body" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div id="quoted_header" style="clear: both;" class=""><hr style="border: none; height: 1px; color: rgb(225, 225, 225); background-color: rgb(225, 225, 225);" class=""><div style="border: none; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">De:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Elaine Gan <<a href="mailto:eganuc@gmail.com" class="">eganuc@gmail.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Envoyé:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>mercredi 13 juin 2018 17:21<br class=""><b class="">À:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>soft_skinned_space<br class=""><b class="">Objet:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [-empyre-] invasive species<br class=""></span></div></div><br type="attribution" class=""><div id="quoted_body" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">such an important conversation. thanks!</div></div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">I work with plants and fungi. Which particular species, spores, seeds matters a lot. Regardless of what names “we” (moderns, elites) choose, things act and react, travel, etc. So if one really needs to spread spores to make symbolic statements, one might be meticulous and careful about which spores, which material effects. Fungal blasts, blights destroy fields, forests, plantations, etc. Others rebuild them. Mycorrhizals are not necessarily good. Saprobes are not necessarily bad. We know little about them. but we can at least try to be specific about what to use. </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">I hope that as interdisciplinary artists-scientists, we might try to figure out small, grounded ways of really listening to these materialities anew, to figure out how they act in the world —instead of assuming that these are already known, or that they are ours to play with. </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Elaine</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="">On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 5:50 AM John Jordan <<a href="mailto:artactivism@gn.apc.org" class="">artactivism@gn.apc.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<div style="word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This article has some interesting sections about the Nazi mix of invasive species discourse and its policies of purity</div><div class=""><b class=""><br class=""></b></div><div class=""><b class="">Confronting introduced species: a form of xenophobia ?</b></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="http://fwf.ag.utk.edu/mgray/wfs560/biological_invasions.pdf" target="_blank" class="">http://fwf.ag.utk.edu/mgray/wfs560/biological_invasions.pdf</a></div></div><div style="word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 13 Jun 2018, at 08:58, Brian Holmes <<a href="mailto:bhcontinentaldrift@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">bhcontinentaldrift@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_1754415725364606390Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<div class=""><div class="">Greets John! Greets Shu Lea!<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">Invasive species is a terrible term, for sure, but zebra and quagga mussels have turned Lake Michigan a beautiful pure almost Aryan blue, and they've basically wiped out almost all other life in the lake... They were brought in the bilge water of freighters coming from the Black Sea, as quite a few others have been; and though it would be relatively easy to transfer the cargo of these ships to trains before they ever get to the Great Lakes, nothing is done, apparently because the US and Canada are so proud of engineering the locks of St Lawrence Seaway. Or maybe it's just because the state only thinks in terms of money, production and trade, and not of beings and balances and histories and futures. I guess the main thing is to be aware of the consequences of what one does, and of what powerful forces in out societies do, and to struggle not for purity or even Nature, but for more vital and viable tomorrows all around.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks to everyone for this thread and the whole series, it's beautiful, Brian<br class=""></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:03 PM, Alan Sondheim<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=""><<a href="mailto:sondheim@panix.com" target="_blank" class="">sondheim@panix.com</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br class=""><br class="">I think you're referring to Lorenz possibly? But the answer begs the question in a sense; I'd rather start from an in-depth knowledge of a landscape/biome, rather than aryan purity.<br class=""><br class="">- Alan<br class=""><br class="">On Tue, 12 Jun 2018, John Jordan wrote:<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">New CD:- LIMIT:<br class=""><a href="http://www.publiceyesore.com/catalog.php?pg=3&pit=138" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://www.publiceyesore.com/catalog.php?pg=3&pit=138</a><br class="">email archive<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/</a><br class="">web<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.alansondheim.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://www.alansondheim.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>/ cell 718-813-3285<br class="">current text<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.alansondheim.org/vk.txt" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://www.alansondheim.org/vk.txt</a><div class="m_1754415725364606390HOEnZb"><div class="m_1754415725364606390h5"><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">empyre forum<br class=""><a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au" target="_blank" class="">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a><br class=""><a href="http://empyre.library.cornell.edu/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://empyre.library.cornell.edu</a><br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">empyre forum<br class=""><a href="mailto:empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au" target="_blank" class="">empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au</a><br class=""><a href="http://empyre.library.cornell.edu/" target="_blank" class="">http://empyre.library.cornell.edu</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div><div style="word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class=""><div style="letter-spacing: normal; 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<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; 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