<div dir="ltr"><div>Dear all,</div><div><br></div><div>thank you for contributions; they are diverse but the issue of ageing has so many different angles that it diversity is inevitable;</div><div><br></div><div>what I meant with the battle between generations is that there are inherently different positions, and the anger is inevitable on both sides; the only difference is that anger is tolerated with kids and youngsters but it is definitely not acceptable with elderly. The expectations that old people should be content and reconciled with their lives and positions in the society is another construct. Everybody has the right (and the reason) to be angry.</div><div><br></div><div>But I can agree that it is not a normative state of old people to be on powerful positions (of course, it depends how we define old age); dismissing people as useless and obsolete is probably the most damaging thing that can happen to a human being. Beside that loneliness is the other issue that is very striking in relation to an old age. Inability to adapt to new situation and new people, rejection of the environment, etc. are painful, and it all often starts with (forced) retirement. As Simone de Beauvoir writes, people after the magic line of sixty five years of age are commonly pushed into poverty (as the pensions are much lower than salaries) and the time which many think could be the time of enjoyment and fulfillment becomes a time of struggle and loneliness. She blaims the system, namely capitalism, for the alienation, lack of empathy and rejection of old people from the societies.</div><div><br></div><div>Of course this is only one aspect (mostly responding to Alan) but there are many more; and I am very happy to hear the ones I don't know much about. Menopause and seuality in older age are difinitely issues I haven't came across much and itis indeed very brave to address them. Almost nobody does; it is a taboo - for people who experience it and for the people like me who know little about it and feel uncomfortable asking about it. <br></div><div><br></div><div>So my interests in the topic are very diverse: for the show that I am preparing I am interested in works of artists who reflect their old age themselves in their works (old people about ageing) and artists who address the issue from a position of observers. Diversity of perceptions and positions are the key here. <br></div><div><br></div><div>all the best,</div><div><br></div><div>Miha<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 at 17:17, Murat Nemet-Nejat <<a href="mailto:muratnn@gmail.com">muratnn@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<div dir="ltr">Is anybody familiar with German director Fassbinder's film <i>Fear Eats the Soul, </i>the love between a German woman in her sixties and a North African man in around his forties?<div><br></div><div>Murat</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 11:04 AM warkk <<a href="mailto:WarkK@newschool.edu" target="_blank">WarkK@newschool.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------<div><div dir="auto">thank you Shu Lea for recalling Sandy’s legendary performance. It’s also described in the book I’m writing about right now: Time is a thing a body moves through by T. Fleischmann. The book is a lovely meditation on Felix Gonzales Torres among other things.</div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It had not occurred to me that when I saw Sandy perform she would have been about the age I am now. I don’t know why I like the thought of that. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">They say transition is a second puberty but I like to think puberty is a transition also. So is menopause. Transition is just a thing our bodies do. They mess with the times if the body.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I do feel like I am both 58 and 18 at the same time. My 18 year old self is going out dancing at raves and doing drugs and making out with strangers while my 58 year old self is doing her best to keep her safe. <br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">My 18 year old self is making a lot of friends who are a little older and wiser on her timeline. On the other timeline they all seem to be 30 years old, where my 58 year old self marvels at how advanced they are compared to when I (we) were 30. The kids are all right. They are oblivious to what will hit them if the world endures long enough for them to be 58 and I’m reluctant to tell them too much. </div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 9:23 AM Shu Lea Cheang <<a href="mailto:shulea@earthlink.net" target="_blank">shulea@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Dear Annie <br>
</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>Very courageous for posting here on this particular topics and i
also thank Miha, Ana, Murat, Alan, Ruth, Simon, Theresa and Sandy
who share their very personal thoughts on this. I do want us to
feel here at -empyre- soft skinned space, among our colleagues
(contemporaries), we can bring these issues up. Being naked,
vulnerable and brave. For a long time. i have not thought it is
possible to bring my sex work (my side job as scifi porn
filmmaker) or queer/gender issues into 'legitimate' media forum
discussion. I am glad this september here at -empyre-, we make a
step forward.</p>
<p>Without getting into penetration, Sandy's orgasmic performance in
which she relocates her G-spot to her palm, rubbing it
(masturbate) to arrive at orgasm with public encouragement. Sandy
was performing this act in pretty much all major media conferences
in the 90s,to recall this act, Sandy must be in her late 50s at
the time? She has virtually repositioned her orgasmic power.<br>
</p>
<p>Sandy Stone on interaction, interface and Desire.
<a href="https://duplox.wzb.eu/docs/panel/sandy.html" target="_blank">https://duplox.wzb.eu/docs/panel/sandy.html</a></p>
<p>best</p></div><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>sl<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div>On 30.09.19 12:32, Annie Abrahams
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------</pre>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi all,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Trying to look back at these few days I notice it is
difficult to treat the subject of "sexuality and age" in
public. I read some very touching stories on ageing (Simon,
Ana), but we only sidewise touched on sexuality, on the kind
(what kind?) that goes with old age. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We only sidewise touched on sexuality, on the kind (what
kind?) that goes with old age. But that is a construct (Miha).
Thanks to Ruth for encouraging me, for pointing to how politic
the subject is and to how body-chemistry <span></span>permanently
changes the way it feels to
be alive, and in relation to other people, that it opens up
whole new
dimensions of relating and resonating with the world, whilst
leaving
behind others. From<span></span> Murat's reaction I learned
how awfully difficult it is to discuss the subject in public.
<br>
</div>
<div>I think I will go on researching, but I will try to create
safer conditions. It feels necessary and I am not afraid to
fail (nothing to loose :)). If so, I will contact some of you
again. I will need diversity.<br>
</div>
<div>If someone else on the list would be interested or can give
me tips for a "how to" please write me a personal mail.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ageing goes with loss as Murat said. <br>
Socializing our houses and our ageing (Ana) won't be done for
us, so yes we should start making kin, taking care (Sandy)
early. <br>
</div>
<div>It can also be an opportunity. It is an opportunity for
resilience and change. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Shu Lea thank you very much for giving me the opportunity
to mutate my anger to an interesting exchange.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ps.<br>
</div>
<div>I would love to see the exhibition Alan dreams of - Anger
is a force .... <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at
10:29 AM Allucquere Rosanne Stone <<a href="mailto:sandy@sandystone.com" target="_blank">sandy@sandystone.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">----------empyre-
soft-skinned space----------------------
<div>
I just returned from dinner with a robust, boisterous
group of people who live in cohousing. They decided to
follow Donna's injunction to "make kin", and they're
successful at it. People of many ages, many professions,
including the elderly and the differently abled. They
care for each other. <br style="color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br style="color:rgb(255,255,255)">
I helped build and help run a community radio station that
brings together people of many ages and many ability
levels to keep alive our motto "many voices, one
station". We care for each other. <br style="color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br style="color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Instead of looking outward at the horrors perpetrated by
our society on the old and sick and different and
differently abled, we look inward and build our own for
our own. It's extremely hard, it's dangerous, it's
possible to fail. But if we don't make kin, if we don't
take care of our own, no one will. To that, I dedicate a
large portion of my life. Let others point out how awful
life can be for the elderly, and let others try to
understand what can be done and how to do it. In the
warping presence of the destructive forces of capital, in
the face of all of patriarchy's evil, we'll simply do all
we can to continue to make kin and to care for each other.
<br style="color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br style="color:rgb(255,255,255)">
That's all I have to say on the topic of aging. <br style="color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br style="color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Sandy <a href="https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=siglink&utm_campaign=reach" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(51,102,153)"></span></a>
<div>
</div>
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<pre>_______________________________________________
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</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
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<a href="http://empyre.library.cornell.edu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://empyre.library.cornell.edu</a></blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><p style="font-family:arial;font-size:10px;color:rgb(0,0,0);padding:5px 0px 0px 5px;margin:0px"><span style="color:rgb(232,46,33)">McKenzie Wark (she/her)</span><br>
<strong>Professor of Media and Culture</strong><br>
<span style="color:rgb(232,46,33)">EUGENE LANG COLLEGE</span><br>
<span>65 w11th st, NEW YORK, NY 10011</span></p><p style="font-family:arial;font-size:10px;padding:10px 0px 0px 5px;margin:0px"><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)"><b>Office:</b> </span><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)">room #456 <b>Cell: </b></span><font color="#666666">646 369 7266 <b>Twitter: </b>@mckenziewark <b>Insta</b>: @mckenziewark3000 </font></p><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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<a href="http://empyre.library.cornell.edu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://empyre.library.cornell.edu</a></blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Miha Colner<br></div></div></div></div>M: +38631354843<br></div>E: <a href="mailto:miha.colner@gmail.com" target="_blank">miha.colner@gmail.com</a><br><span><a href="http://mihacolner.com" target="_blank">mihacolner.com</a></span><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>