Re: [-empyre-] [empyre] producers and consumers

[Cristiano Bianchi <cristianobianchi@yahoo.com>]

Damien, you've just done what I never did. Being
oppressive. In the lack of arguments, you have to go
for a personal attack.

You think I'm rude and oppressive towards women. That
can only mean that you probably didn't read the entire
thread of my messages. If you did so, you would have
not lightly judged and perhaps understood where I was
coming from and perhaps realised I was trying to
defend women, not to oppress them. In my messages I
only had the greatest and most appreciative words for
women and feminism, and yet I expressed a strong
opinion about the Cyber flavour of it, which to me has
no substance. Or, if it has, it's in the wrong
historical drawer (i.e. it's the association with
feminism, which is wrong here). You want to make art?
That's fine, but do not mess around with suffregette
and the like. 

I would look a little at history if I was you.
Oppressive male culture (rightful aim of feminist
battles) have tried and often successfully achieved to
silent women and put them in subordinate positions.
Did I do that? Did anyone on this medium ever do that?
That would call for stronger examples. So far in this
discussion only so called male oriented discussions
(like linux related groups) have been quoted as
examples of a male dominated cyber culture. 

Of course I would have manifested the same opinions
towards male ideas, irrespective of gender, should I
disagree with those opinions and feel strong about it.
Isn't this the purpose of a 'discussion' group?

> [women] that they want a space to express
> themselves and 
> ideologies without being dismissed as stupid /
> irrelevant / a waste of 
> time.

Damien, that space does not exist. Every time you
express an opinion, you're subject to other people own
opinion. Why should the Internet be any different
from, say, going to Madison Square or Hyde Park: when
you stand in The Speakers Corner, you of course run
the risk that someone will throw tomato at you? What
you want seems to be the contrary of the democratic
process, where everyone can express opinions, but no
one has the right to say it's apeship. And mind you,
no one here has ever said that Julienne Pierce is
stupid or oppressed or a waste of time (as you did, in
different terms, towards me). The object of the
discussion are opinions, ideas, self-called art. Which
is whet I disagree with. You want me to shup up? Fine,
I will from now on, but who is the oppressor? And I'm
not a womam ;-)


> Can you appreciate that women are trying to address
> (heal) the gender 
> issues that still exists in our culture... the
> internet is a great way 
> to continue this quest on a global scale...

Demian, really, read my messages. If you do, and
understand them, you'll find you're saying exactly the
same as I do. The quest is big, but has very little to
do with being oppressed in cyberspace.

I won't go onto discussing things like 19th century
mindsets and similar, because it seems that unless you
try to spend time on reading and undestaning, as I
did, you're likely to be the oppressor, here, who
judges by the surface of the things, without really
knowing what you're talking about. Nothing personal,
but I don't have time for this.

Very best regards,

Cristiano

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