Re: [-empyre-] free will and determinism

[Alan Sondheim <sondheim@panix.com>]

I agree with you - did you see my reply?

- Alan

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, eugenie wrote:

> dear all...
>
> alan - you believe that we are at the beginnings of virtuality? i don't know
> about that. virtuality, as john points out, has been around for a while as a
> concept. in visual/occidental terms, it's been around since at least
> Alberti's time and probably earlier.
>
> what is new is our ability to interact with this space on a 'meaningful'
> level ... to go through the window, to actually enter a space that we've
> spent generations charging with our various desires and ideals. bit of a
> scary thought, really
>
> eugenie
>
> on 19/11/03 3:28 AM, John Hopkins at jhopkins@uiah.fi wrote:
>
> >> I also would like to know in what sense failure? We're still in the
> >> beginning of virtuality, with all its dangers and pitfalls; at this
> >
> > virtuality began a long time ago.  for example, if you look at the
> > history of glass (to compress a longer discussion much!).  Glass,
> > made from the 2 most abundant materials at the earth's surface,
> > oxygen and silicon.  Humans, facing the rush of natural and chaotic
> > energies in the sensual world, reach for the most available
> > substances to protect themselves, to separate themselves from the
> > roaring rush of nature.  Only natural that they use glass.  In
> > Icelandic, there is a phrase that translates "window weather" --
> > having a survival meaning akin to "thank god we have a 20cm square
> > piece of glass at the southern end of our sod hut through which we
> > can (safely) watch all hell break loose with one of those
> > south-easter storms" that come ripping off the North Atlantic.  If
> > you track glass forward past windows, you arrive at the whole
> > dimension of optics, leading to photography (among other things), on
> > to the CRT, (autos with windows), teevee, the sillicon dioxide
> > (called amorphous silica)-based chip, and lately to Bill's creation
> > "windows."
> >
> > What all these material mappings hold in common is that they affect a
> > fundamental reduction (narrowing of bandwidth, if you will) of the
> > energies "out there" that arrive at our sensual inputs.  It is no
> > coincidence that silicon dioxide, as the most available substance,
> > has played such a pivotal role in the consequent insulation/isolation
> > of our senses...
> >
> > I would define virtuality as the condition where there is a
> > human-constructed intervention that serves to reduce/narrow/limit any
> > of our sensual inputs.  Riding in a car around eLAy is very virtual,
> > unless you have a convertible, then everything becomes all too real,
> > though unbelieveable.  Looking at teevee, observing the rings of
> > Saturn through a telescope, taking photos -- the dangers and pitfalls
> > have been there since we began to hide from nature (eating fruit of
> > the tree of the knowledge of good and evil), and to cover our
> > naked-ness...
> >
> > Hard to package this in a few paragraphs, but that is the essence.
> > It's based in the worldview that I hold, which leaves materialism
> > behind and moves in a space of energy flows...
> >
> > jh
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://www.subtle.net/empyre
>
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