Re: [-empyre-] Social space, art practice, network structure

[kathy rae huffman <kahuffm@attglobal.net>]

Dear Robbin,

I went to the archive of The Thing and read this thread you refer to 'snap 
to grid'.  Yes, it is very much like what is going on in this empyre 
discussion.  It is primarily three males posturing --and a couple of 
females trying (in vain) to ask what you are talking about, and bringing 
the topic back into question.  It is a perfect example of a group 
discussion dominated by a couple of personalities.  I recommend that others 
take a look -- it is quite revealing.  It is much more like a closed 
debate.  Maybe we need a new category of on-line discussion:  this kind of 
debate, where others can read the discourse, and silently have their own 
opinion.

So, thanks for this insight, you have a great memory.

You know, I was also reading these lists in 1995+ from an unheated artists 
space in Vienna.  I was very much a newbie, and very impressed with the 
voracious writing of many (mostly guys but not exclusively)....it was 
amazing. So, I am aware of your long history of involvement in the exchange 
of information on lists and as a net project maker.  It is truly impressive.

However, then (as now) it was indeed a bit of a problem to understand what 
--exactly-- you were all getting at, with circularsions that were far from 
any topic. I kept reading, though.  It ultimately led to the informed 
creation of the pop~Tarts column for Telepolis (with Margarete Jahrmann) 
and the Face Settings project (with Eva Wohlgemuth).  We were looking for 
more open structures of communication on-line, where we would have a chance 
to discuss ideas and pose questions that were not be terribly sophisticated 
or theoretical.

What we all need to do at this stage of list communication, is to find 
better ways to be inclusive, to listen to those short, brief notes that 
someone stresses over, before tentatively posting, and then, when they get 
slammed for appearing stupid in the eyes of the dominant ones -- well, that 
just ends it for them right then and there.

I suppose what I'm talking about here is finding some kind of deep 
kindness, and true interest in what a wider view might be -- rather than 
focus on private exchange on a very narrow line of concern -- and off 
topic.  That kind of discussion doesn't need a list.  And...If you need an 
audience, albeit silent, do a performance IRL.

There are lists with a topic, and lists without -- just pay attention to 
the one you are on. These are just a few more of my thoughts on LIST 
communication.

Kathy


At 17:39 22/08/2004 -0400, you wrote:

> Those interested in researching Lists may want to check out the archives 
> of The Thing BBS, which started in 1991 and had nodes in NYC, Germany, 
> Switzerland, Austria and The Netherlands:
> http://old.thing.net
>
> In the Archives you'll find a thread called "Snap to Grid" from 1994 that 
> is very much like the recent subscription thread here. Plus ca change...
>
> Also, a project I was involved with from 1996-97, blast5drama, may be of 
> interest. Lists were integral but also only one part of a larger network 
> structure that included physical space and objects, MOOs, Internet Radio, 
> IRC et al. If you do a google on blast5drama you'll find the remains.
>
> Best,
> Robbin Murphy
>
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