RE: [-empyre-] the heart of the matter

["patrick lichty" <voyd@voyd.com>]

This is a very good question.
Before going off in that direction, the question is whether that model
really emulates a organic form of neural interaction, with the same
dynamics, etc.  Also, are we looking at computationalism as a rhetorical
model, a philosophical model, or a cognitive model, or other?  I think
that the frame in which computationalism is considered is very
important.  As a rhetorical model, it sounds fine, but as a concrete
analogue of digital and organic function, I have reservations.  But
then, I was wrong about CD's...

Is Randy Beer related to Stafford Beer?  I'm more familiar with his work
in organizational synergy.



Patrick Lichty
Editor-In-Chief
Intelligent Agent Magazine
http://www.intelligentagent.com
1556 Clough Street, #28
Bowling Green, OH 43402
225 288 5813
voyd@voyd.com
 
"It is better to die on your feet 
than to live on your knees." 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: empyre-bounces@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
[mailto:empyre-bounces@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au] On Behalf Of
paul@paul-brown.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 6:25 PM
To: soft_skinned_space
Subject: RE: [-empyre-] the heart of the matter

Patrick - what about models like for example the Dynamic Recurrent
Neural Network (Randy Beer's model)?  Also since these can, and
most often are, implemented as simulations on standard von-neumann
digital discrete systems - what's the difference between the
hardware implementation and the digital simulation (provided say
both are embodied in a "real world" robot)?

Quoting patrick lichty <voyd@voyd.com>:

> The most reductive way to put it would be to argue that the two are
not
> analogous to one another.
>
> My understanding is that although there is a processing involved, but
we
> could discuss the definition of information, processing, etc., and the
> nature of cognition vs. data processing (i.e. digital computation).  I
> feel that the processes are so fundamentally different, that to make
> analogues between the two is problematic at best.
>
> Part of my argument is that if one has a hammer, everything looks like
a
> nail.  We use computers now, and my contention is that much looks like
> data to us.
>
> A question back: can there be a thing such as
> non-qualitative/non-discrete computing?  I used to program analog
> computers, but I am thinking about qualitative computing, but not
> analog.  Consider that I might be suggesting a complete break with
> silicon computing here.  It might be an application for biocomputing.
>
> Patrick Lichty
> Editor-In-Chief
> Intelligent Agent Magazine
> http://www.intelligentagent.com
> 1556 Clough Street, #28
> Bowling Green, OH 43402
> 225 288 5813
> voyd@voyd.com
>
> "It is better to die on your feet
> than to live on your knees."
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: empyre-bounces@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> [mailto:empyre-bounces@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au] On Behalf Of Jim
Andrews
> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 3:46 PM
> To: soft_skinned_space
> Subject: RE: [-empyre-] the heart of the matter
>
> hi patrick,
>
> what does it mean to say "human thought... is not akin to digital
> computation at all."
>
> ja
> http://vispo.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> empyre forum
> empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
>
> _______________________________________________
> empyre forum
> empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
>



_______________________________________________
empyre forum
empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
http://www.subtle.net/empyre