Re: [-empyre-] on meaningful articulations : strategies

[edmar <ed@lumpen.com>]

Hey nato.
Thanks for posting .
And hello empyre. I usually make little time to participate in the
conversations here, but thought I would since I am feeling there has been a
very big dip in activity in Chicago and Natos comments made me want to chime
in and comment on his usually spot on observations.

First off I am with you>
"The emergence of spaces that attempt to produce new models of social
exploration and the connecting of these spaces (and journals or magazines)
is a key component in producing vital counter culture."

This developing counter culture is really all that has been interesting to
me in the states and has inspired many projects.. For the last three years
we ran a neat space in chicago and found ourselves as part of a national
movement of sorts where spaces have become important nodes in activity of
all sorts. They are akin to the squats of Holland and germany and social
centers of Italy, but most are generally less politically energized..

There are initiatives and alt space alliances being built as we speak on
multiple fronts and I think we will see this movement expand and become less
transient and more impactful over time. It is a beautiful thing to share a
space.... I think more dialogue on this topic will be useful.


But later my eyes lit up when nato said..
"The quest for calling out who is  co-opting and who is commodifying and who
is selling out, can often be a  screen for one's own career or social
frustration"

These comments have described exactly some of the problems ones encounters
in Chicago (and probably everywhere) within certain radical milieus. The
"critics" demoralize and denigrate those who are actually "embodied
practicioners" in these spaces and invisible micromovements. I I think its
because their politics are not entirely clear or defined neatly for their
research needs. These critics actually turn a blind eye to a very important
social space arena that could use their participation instead of alienation.

I've seen and heard the Communards amongst us both valorise and demonize the
very spaces and people they see as practicioners of this 'revolution'. Too
many times I have witnessed and seen these art/politicos decry
experimentation as failure, see upstarts as competition and view non
political social scenes as useless diversions and not serious or worth
nuturing. Calls for collaboration become empty promises. Upholding a notion
of sharing resources is really an illusion of solidarity. Their critiques
become more worthy of attention than the activity or project itself.

This environment has trained me to avoid academically inclined careerist
toes. And due to this condition I have realized that its  more important to
generate interest in some generally shared strategies and ideas by creating
counter structures rather than embrace the alienation

In general the more radical than you aesthetic, critque and postering by
many of the act/art cats really brings us all down. I used to think it was
an age thing, but it continues way past any youthful exuberance plea...

You'd think lessons could be learned after so many failed radical space
initiatives and collectives here in town...

Perhaps your comments might shame us into the first step of behavior
modification.
;)


\ thanks for the opportunity to whine.
Ed marszewski


"> I often think we internalize the values of the marketplace by
consistently 
> retaining the avant-guare as new product placement. That under the veil of
> market critique, we are harboring our personal product, that is our
> subjectivity. This is problematic. Often the language of capitalist critique
> is used as a cover for our own ego. That happens... I swear. "


> Hey everybody,
> 
> I'm sorry for being so negligent in posts, but I hope to rectify that. I have
> been having trouble keeping up with all the posts, but am deciding to just
> throw something out there and hope that I am not repeating too much.
> 
> I just gave a talk at a space Messhall in Chicago and we were treading over
> this territory as well. I am sure it's on our minds. I came away with these
> thoughts that I think can address two different strands of thought:
> 
> 1. Embodied practice (that is the participating in a social culture that
> exists outside commercial paradigms of political aesthetics practice) is a
> good thing. The emergence of spaces that attempt to produce new models of
> social exploration and the connecting of these spaces (and journals or
> magazines) is a key component in producing vital counter culture. It's amazing
> to me how much more useful these spaces are than theory. However, I don't want
> to go too far down the road of anti-intellectualism. It's just that we need
> places to participate in more than we need books right now.
> 
> 2. Critique is a useful function, but if not contextuaized inside a community
> who want to grow, it is just mean spirited. The quest for calling out who is
> co-opting and who is commodifying and who is selling out, can often be a
> screen for one's own career or social frustration. I have seen more than a few
> times the use of the term co-opt applied to projects only because they attempt
> to retain a reasonable socially gratifying level of recognition. The witch
> hunt for self serving art projects can lead to more ill will than productive
> politics. So, I'm always curious about the approach to politics of calling out
> the corrupt among us. I realize I work in an institution where I feel somewhat
> complicit in a form of institutionalization. I'm ok with that. I think MASS
> MoCA can be helpful to some projects and not to others. There is some sense of
> contradiction that is tricky to navigate. I am also aware that producing
> counter-structures is often times more fruitful than the figuring out who is,
> and isn't truly down with the cause.
> 
> I often think we internalize the values of the marketplace by consistently
> retaining the avant-guare as new product placement. That under the veil of
> market critique, we are harboring our personal product, that is our
> subjectivity. This is problematic. Often the language of capitalist critique
> is used as a cover for our own ego. That happens... I swear.
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: empyre-bounces@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> [mailto:empyre-bounces@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au] On Behalf Of christina ulke
> Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 4:52 AM
> To: soft_skinned_space
> Subject: Re: [-empyre-] on meaningful articulations : strategies
> 
> 
> Robby - i tend to disagree with you, I think art does have the power to change
> people's perception of things  and give us a very complex experience of
> reality. Art can indeed be effective in the traditional art world.
> 
> But how do you measure effectivity?
> 
>  I think one problem that stands in the way of having a serious discourse in
> the gallery/museum system is the 'branding' of the individual artist/artist
> group/ project and - along with it- the need for "product"[artist=product]
> consistency.
> 
> Take for example 'Fallen Fruit'; a project that was published in our 3rd issue
> as one of the art projects
> http://www.joaap.org/new3/index.php?page=viegeneretal
> 
> " FALLEN FRUIT began as an artist's project for The Journal of Aesthetics and
> Protest in Los Angeles; it was a mapping of all the 'public fruit' in our
> neighborhood in Los Angeles. We believe that fruit planted on private property
> which overhangs public space should be public property and created
> this project to encourage people both to harvest and plant public fruit. The
> project is a response to accelerating urbanization and the loss of people's
> capacity to produce their own foods, as well as issues around grassroots
> community activism, social welfare and social responsibility "
> http://www.fallenfruit.org/
> 
>  I wonder -  what started out as a "confined" art project is now an art
> collective/cultural machine driving its own advertisement campaign with
> spin-off projects in NY, shwag, events etc.
> 
> I would argue that Fallen Fruit is an example of a project that is in the
> process of commodifing/branding itself; the question is -is  this sort of
> production around the artwork an example of an"embodied" practice? Or is it an
> example of an  effective marketing strategy in order to get the
> project into the Whitney  Biennale? Or is this commodification even
> necessary to be effective?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Robby wrote:
>> I am very  skeptical that Art, and artists when articulated as
>> individual  practitioners, abstracted from a political, social, or
>> cultural base, can  have an actual effect here
> and
>> While Fish Story is a solid and even innovative practice of documentary
>> photography- it, like Sekula's practice- becomes a stand in for the
>> real in the capitalist art marketplace, as he is bandied about as the
>> last standing Marxist in contemporary art
> 
> 
> Ryan wrote
> 
>> along the lines of Kenneth's questions, i'm also interested in the
>> engagement with criticality as an "embodied" practice (to use Brian's
>> phrase).
> 
> 
> Ryan wrote
>> this is what i've seen as part of the journal's project (not to say
>> that for everyone else, of course). at some point, we have to evaluate
>> the state of embodiment. is the materialization of a given discourse
>> just producing books and conferences?
> 
> 
>  i've been thinking about de Certeau's use of "tactics" v
>> "strategy" in relation to the militaristic use of those concepts...
>> (thanks to a recent discussion with the center for tactical magic) a
>> lot of critically engaged practice has put much faith in the notion of
>> tactics as a reactionary form of practice, whether of the direct
>> action kind, or the unconscious everyday method of coping. but i'm
>> wondering if it's not important now to develop notions of strategy...
>> what would a "strategical media" look like? this is what i've seen as
>> part of the journal's project (not to say that for everyone else, of
>> course). at some point, we have to evaluate the state of embodiment.
>> is the materialization of a given discourse just producing books and
>> conferences? or is it interfacing with life in other ways? i certainly
>> am not saying i know how to evaluate this (if it's even possible) but
>> it seems the questions would have to be raised. as to the question
>> about where commodification (fetishism) is happening... i think there
>> are multiple ways that one could site that. certainly the publishing
>> system, and what's been called the "academic-military-entertainment
>> complex" on other lists recently... best,
>> ryan
>> 
> 
> 
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