[-empyre-] to brazil with love
Irina Contreras
poopstarr at yahoo.com
Wed Jun 4 11:11:25 EST 2008
oh and i just meant the states as in the united states.
my apologies for being inevitably brainwashed and assimilated.
but thats how that whole shpeal started.
--- On Sat, 5/31/08, sdv at krokodile.co.uk <sdv at krokodile.co.uk> wrote:
> From: sdv at krokodile.co.uk <sdv at krokodile.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [-empyre-] to brazil with love
> To: archivocaminante at yahoo.com.ar, "soft_skinned_space" <empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
> Date: Saturday, May 31, 2008, 2:10 AM
> Eduardo,
>
> It wasn't clear to me that some difference was being
> claimed between the
> state and the state as connected to the art and cultural
> industry. I
> wouldn't maintain such a difference myself because...
>
> Well surely the same thing applies - just as it is
> insufficient to think
> of a politics that abstracts itself from the domain of the
> state,
> creating spaces outside of the state, new sites of
> resistence. Contrary
> to this naive approach surely the issue is to take control
> of the
> state-apparatus, which contains the implication that
> artists,
> craftspeople and users should take control of the art and
> cultural
> industry.
>
> I was listenning to a radio programme about the relations
> between
> astronomy, astrology and the early empires and states of
> 4000++ years
> ago. The presenter (I do not know her name) was implying
> that the state
> was a central and necessary cultural and technological
> invention,
> (shades of deleuze, wittfogel and perhaps even toynbee)
> critically she
> was drawing out the relations between the states and the
> planets and
> stars. If an astronomer can draw out these connections
> then equally it
> should be possible to accept and work the relations between
> the state
> and the cultural industry....
>
> The alternative to this is to accept that capital is an
> acceptable and
> inevitable background to our lives. Which it isn't.
>
> steve
>
> Eduardo Molinari wrote:
>
> >Dear S,
> >I think that we were talking about other
> "state" dimension.
> >the one that is more connected with art and cultural
> industry.
> >
> >this dimension that you are putting now on the table,
> >is more serious for me, is not a question of to be
> bored or to have fun.
> >
> >social and legal politics of the state, about our
> bodies
> >are a challenge today, when privacy is on troubles.
> >Not only about sex & gender.
> >
> >What about this when the citizens all over the world
> are
> >involved by George Bush in a potential "evil
> axle"?
> >
> >what about Guantanamo concentration camp?
> >
> >yes, you're true, no "bored".
> >thank you for make me thinking more!
> >eduardo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Eduardo Molinari / Archivo Caminante
> >Aramburu 880, Dto.1 (1640) Martínez
> >Provincia de Buenos Aires - Argentina
> >0541 1 47 98 48 35
> >
> >
> >--- El vie 30-may-08, sdv at krokodile.co.uk
> <sdv at krokodile.co.uk> escribió:
> >
> >
> >
> >>De: sdv at krokodile.co.uk <sdv at krokodile.co.uk>
> >>Asunto: Re: [-empyre-] to brazil with love
> >>Para: poopstarr at yahoo.com,
> "soft_skinned_space"
> <empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
> >>Fecha: viernes, 30 de mayo de 2008, 11:41 am
> >>Interesting that the 'state' bores you...
> and that
> >>art-gods don't....
> >>
> >>Last week the major political argument (here) was
> >>interestingly enough
> >>on various biopolitical engagements on the body,
> decisions
> >>on hybrid
> >>dna research, whether a father was required for
> ivf
> >>treatments, the
> >>upper time limit for abortions.... That the
> argument is at
> >>what point
> >>these things are criminalized should I would have
> thought
> >>been the kind
> >>of thing you would have been interested in... What
> is it
> >>about the state
> >>that worries you all so much ?
> >>
> >>s
> >>Irina Contreras wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hi everyone!
> >>>But especially Eduardo....
> >>>so I only know about incarnation as being
> attached in a
> >>>
> >>>
> >>sense that is religous....without getting into art
> gods and
> >>such I am trying to think about how this relates.
> >>
> >>
> >>>I mean, I am into the idea of an art
> god....like mine
> >>>
> >>>
> >>would probably be a room with Divine, Deleuze,
> KRS-1, La
> >>Llorona and maybe Os Mutantes for good
> measure...but no, I
> >>don't think that is what you are talkin
> about...
> >>
> >>
> >>>I imagine feeling one's actions is like
> being in
> >>>
> >>>
> >>the fading in and out conciousness you only or at
> least I
> >>only seem to experience in the middle of a
> performance, on
> >>a really long bike ride in unfamiliar territory,
> all day
> >>fucking, or maybe????
> >>
> >>
> >>>Sorry I am such a bad speller today and I know
> I am
> >>>
> >>>
> >>really good at derailing....
> >>
> >>
> >>>Have a great eve everyone or morning
> whatevs....
> >>>xo
> >>>Irina
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--- On Sun, 5/25/08, Eduardo Molinari
> >>>
> >>>
> >><archivocaminante at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>From: Eduardo Molinari
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >><archivocaminante at yahoo.com.ar>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>Subject: Re: [-empyre-] to brazil with love
> >>>>To: "soft_skinned_space"
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >><empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>,
> poopstarr at yahoo.com
> >>
> >>
> >>>>Date: Sunday, May 25, 2008, 4:49 PM
> >>>>Hi Irina, dear all
> >>>>
> >>>>erotic and politics... intensive
> connection!
> >>>>I agree with you, the states bores me too
> about
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>this.
> >>
> >>
> >>>>what is to "erotize politic"
> today?
> >>>>what are the connections between body and
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>ideologies today?
> >>
> >>
> >>>>what is the political dimension of the body
> today?
> >>>>
> >>>>to erotize politic for me is only possible
> when
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>incarnation
> >>
> >>
> >>>>happens.
> >>>>then you can "feel" the political
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>actions, also
> >>
> >>
> >>>>the enemy ones.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>what do you think Irina?
> >>>>
> >>>>thank you!
> >>>>eduardo
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Eduardo Molinari / Archivo Caminante
> >>>>Aramburu 880, Dto.1 (1640) Martínez
> >>>>Provincia de Buenos Aires - Argentina
> >>>>0541 1 47 98 48 35
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>--- El jue 22-may-08, Irina Contreras
> >>>><poopstarr at yahoo.com> escribió:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>De: Irina Contreras
> <poopstarr at yahoo.com>
> >>>>>Asunto: Re: [-empyre-] to brazil with
> love
> >>>>>Para: "soft_skinned_space"
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>><empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Fecha: jueves, 22 de mayo de 2008, 6:59
> pm
> >>>>>hi everyone,
> >>>>>my name is Irina Contreras....
> >>>>>just wanting to drop in finally and try
> to tune
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>in
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>more....
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>excited about where this is going....i
> have to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>say i
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>was
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>finding some of the other conversation
> to be
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>losing me
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>for
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>some reason...maybe its just the nature
> of the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>internet...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>im really intrigued by this booing that
> took
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>place at
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>sexual diversity screening...what
> happened if i
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>can
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>ask?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>im also interested and wondering about
> an
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>expansion on
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>ideas of microerotic and the
> integration of
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>erotic
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>into
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>political issues.
> >>>>>It seems funny because queerness and
> sex has
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>been
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>inevitably politicized as i see it.
> >>>>>but i also think that the way it is
> often
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>currently
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>done in
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>the states bores me a bit....it feels
> very
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>limited to
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>me
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>racially especially.
> >>>>>alright, im done....
> >>>>>also, are you active with the icarus
> project
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>discussions?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Abrazos,
> >>>>>Irina
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>--- On Thu, 5/22/08, brian whitener
> >>>>><iwaslike at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>From: brian whitener
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >><iwaslike at hotmail.com>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>Subject: [-empyre-] to brazil with
> love
> >>>>>>To: empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> >>>>>>Date: Thursday, May 22, 2008, 6:53
> AM
> >>>>>>hi all,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>sorry for the absence. internet
> access has
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>been a
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>bit
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>difficult this last days.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>these are a few questions for hilan
> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>fabiane:
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>what
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>does
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>it mean to work in an errorist
> manner?can
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>you
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>send
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>examples
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>from the handbook of esquizotrans
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>pornography?what is
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>'esquizerda' (the
> esquizoleft)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>?what does
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>organization of trans or
> esquizoleft
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>community
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>look
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>like in
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>brasil?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Fabiane Borges (BR) is a writer and
> media
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>and
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>communication
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>activistwho works with genders,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>transgenders, and
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>technology. She has abackground in
> squat
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>art and
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>social
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>movements, such as those
> involvingwhores,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>women,
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>low-tech
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>media, indigenous groups, and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>theanti-psychiatry
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>movement
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>[luta antimanicomial]. She
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>enjoysesquizoanalysis
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>and
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>usually uses the name
> >>>>>>Cassandras.http://cassandras.multiply.com.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>Hilan
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>Bensusan
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>(BR) inspects singularities (like
> poetry
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>writers,people
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>coming out of the prisons),
> lectures
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>philosophy
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>in
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>theUniversity ofBrasilia and writes
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>manifestoes.
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>http://www.unb.br/ih/fil/hilanb
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>Esquizotrans -
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>a
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>gang of
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>our shifting slices Esquizotrans is
> an
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>assembly
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>of
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>desires
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>focused on transgressing
> anddiluting
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>borders. We
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>experiment
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>with writing, filming, performing
> inorder
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>to blur
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>both
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>gender and genre borders. We do it
> in an
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>erroristmanner (as
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>hangovers of the Errorist
> International).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>In 2007
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>we
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>were
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>booed in a sexual diversity film
> festival
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>in
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>Brazilafter
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>screening our Mulher-Bicha (Female
> Fag).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>Since
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>2006 we
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>produceshort films accompanied with
> small
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>performances
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>that
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>attempt tochannel erotic energy
> into
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>politics
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>while
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>exposing
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>the politicalundertone of the
> microerotic.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>We
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>maintain
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>column in the MondeDiplomatique,
> Brazil,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>were we
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>dilute the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>principles of
> column-writing,celebrate both
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>the
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>transsexual
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>and the transgender takes on
> whateveris
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>cyberpolitical
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>and
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>formulate what we call the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>'esquizerda'
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>(theesquizoleft) - that would
> attempt to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>extract
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>subversive force from
> themultiplication of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>exception,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>deviation and error. Our current
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>projectsinvolve
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>short
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>films of urban intervention in
> several
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>towns,
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>writingperformances where our
> convulsive
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>collective
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>writing
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>is shown in theopen and the
> publication of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>our
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>handbook of
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>esquizotrans pornography. Our
> recent
> >>>>>>site:http://esquizotrans.wordpress.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>enjoy some
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>of
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>our
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>movies:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnRMbQQM2J0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZyL7pWfdG4
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>_________________________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>Make every e-mail and IM count.
> Join the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>i'm
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>Initiative
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>from Microsoft.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>MakeCount_______________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>empyre forum
> >>>>>>empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> >>>>>>http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>empyre forum
> >>>>>empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> >>>>>http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>__________________________________________________
> >>>>Correo Yahoo!
> >>>>Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus
> y
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>antispam
> >>
> >>
> >>>>¡gratis!
> >>>>¡Abrí tu cuenta ya! -
> http://correo.yahoo.com.ar
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>empyre forum
> >>>empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> >>>http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>empyre forum
> >>empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> >>http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> >>
> >>
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Correo Yahoo!
> >Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam
> ¡gratis!
> >¡Abrí tu cuenta ya! - http://correo.yahoo.com.ar
> >_______________________________________________
> >empyre forum
> >empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> >http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> empyre forum
> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
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