[-empyre-] Question

[marc garrett]

Hi Steve,

I would think that art that goes through the same motions of spam, has 
its sorry state as well as its progressive, critical or challenging 
state. I used to make spam art, which was part of my own net artwork and 
much of it was sent into people's personal email clients.. this is a 
little while back now...

I actually do not consider repeated emails (as long as they are not more 
than 5-10 a day) into an email list, as spam, more of a creative flow 
and real-time experience from that artist/individual.

The issue I had was that, as time went by - spam became more ugly as an 
experience for everyone (and myself), and making spam art became less of 
a pleasure and you seemed like a spammer. Especially if your work ended 
up amongst thousands of other spam, sent by cynical capitalists and 
other types who were trying to con people.

Even though I feel that it is important to use facilities that lie 
outside of accepted behaviour and protocols for producing and 
distribution, of art. In the end, the value of making spam art becomes 
less meaningful because it is corrupted by the context of a constant 
influx of digital waste, spewed out by those who are less interested in 
moving beyond the raw defines of capitalistic greed.

I think that spam art could still be interesting, if explored or 
experienced in less spammed environments, such as university lists and 
blogs ;-)

marc
> Jeremy,
>
> Understood.
>
> However I think that spam, whether it is art or not art remains spam. 
> And spam is the perfect representation of the autocratic reign of the 
> market economy, an irresponsible soveriegnty, as Debord (one of my 
> favorite marxists) put it.  The question it seems to me is whether the 
> artistic intention does something more than just generate more spam, 
> more consumptive rubbish.
>
> The argument I'd like to read, a manifesto if you prefer, is to 
> explain why this action, this event, has some greater meaning than the 
> cynicism that I after Debord feel towards the idea of spam-as-art.
>
> steve
>
> Jeremy Douglass wrote:
>> To (hopefully) clarify my position, I don't claim that *all spam is 
>> art*, but rather that *some art is also spam*. That unsolicited 
>> messages can be artful isn't really a radical redefinition of art - 
>> it seems to me more a commonsense observation on the facts of art 
>> history, in every medium, whether rag broadsides or digital bulletin 
>> board posts.
>>
>>  -- Jeremy
>>
>> On Jun 19, 2008, at 12:19, "sdv at krokodile.co.uk 
>> <mailto:sdv at krokodile.co.uk>" <sdv at krokodile.co.uk 
>> <mailto:sdv at krokodile.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>> Jason/all
>>>
>>> One of the now defunkt net-art lists was once inhabited by a 
>>> net-artist who used to glory in the idea of spam-as-art, s/he had no 
>>> reason, logical or otherwise for declaring that the spam and porn  
>>> was  art but did so anyway. I suppose your justification is better 
>>> than his, but if seperated from the in-joke it still seems to suffer 
>>> from the same problem that 'spam-as-art' did, namely that it 
>>> vanishes into the ever increasing amounts of endless rubbish that 
>>> constitutes the net.
>>>
>>> However this snail mail joke is charming and might be suitably 
>>> random  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/4162471.stm...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> s
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jason Nelson wrote:
>>>> Sure......I suppose the same could be said for much of experimental
>>>> fiction or abstract art etc....the idea that unexpected posts might
>>>> appear to be spam at first is a valid concern.....
>>>>
>>>> but much like graffiti or other tagging, the art comes from posting
>>>> something that both "fits in that net space" and creates an interesting
>>>> part of a narrative or simply a pretty micro fiction or even a non
>>>> sensical poem....
>>>>
>>>> these places where users can enter data and briefly express themselves
>>>> are quickly becoming a powerful form of written communication and
>>>> therefore we creative types must begin to explore those conduits 
>>>> as venues/canvasses for interesting words....
>>>>
>>>> so I suppose I would throw it back to you and say write something
>>>> that doesnt seem spam like.....
>>>>
>>>> cheers, Jason
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Wed, 6/18/08, sdv at krokodile.co.uk <mailto:sdv at krokodile.co.uk> <sdv at krokodile.co.uk <mailto:sdv at krokodile.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>> From: sdv at krokodile.co.uk <mailto:sdv at krokodile.co.uk> <sdv at krokodile.co.uk <mailto:sdv at krokodile.co.uk>>
>>>>> Subject: [-empyre-] Question
>>>>> To: empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au <mailto:empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
>>>>> Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 11:44 AM
>>>>> All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Reading a few of the notes that have been written on the
>>>>> net, I realized that I could see no difference between the
>>>>> text and the average piece of spam that is automatically
>>>>> deleted either from emails or sites.
>>>>>
>>>>> What justification can you produce for this proliferation
>>>>> of text?
>>>>>
>>>>> s
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> empyre forum
>>>>> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au <mailto:empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
>>>>> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
>>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>       
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   
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