[-empyre-] Re: love, sacrifice, and the eternal surplus

[fredericneyrat at free.fr]

hello,

so the less that we can do - first of all - is to make a difference
between object and subject ...

When Celine writes "L'amour est l'infini a la portée des caniches",
this difference collapses (with a rough humor) - in the same way every
reductionism does (without humor).

Without exploring here differences between desire and love, object
subject, phantasm and so on:
one can say that there's a sort of
surplus-of-love, which can't be reduced to any subject love: one
always loves someone more than one loves she or he ...

Sacrifice is a way to consume this surplus.

Frederic


Selon sergio basbaum <sbasbaum at gmail.com>:

> Melinda,
>
> I don't know if I got wrong your message, but are you suggesting
> that all
> the struggle for the meaning and expression of the world "love", or
> at least
> some of its meanings could be reduced to "just a physiological
> response
> sparked by a set of characteristics in the love
> object (which doesn't necessarily have to be a person or the
> representation
> of person), and the context and availability of that object." ?
>
> This means you're throwing away a lot of meaning -- all of it
> opened to
> interpretation and re-creation and also offering an paths to get
> closer
> (through involvement and interpretation and dialogue and silence)
> to deep
> hidden aspects of human soul & experience -- by a simplistic,
> reductionistic
> causalistic and materialistic explanation of neuroscience.
>
> Between Shakespeare and Neuroscience, I'd rather stay with
> Shakespeare.
> Contemporarily, probably along a milkshakespeare.
>
> love
>
> s.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 7:51 AM, melinda <m at subtle.net> wrote:
>
> > Hi all
> > Well i guess it depends on what sort of love you are referring
> to...
> > -this one sounds like the heady passionate compulsive type of
> love, as
> > distinct the primal lust type of love, or the attached
> companionable type
> > of
> > love..
> >
> > Ive been doing a bit of research lately for book chapter coming
> out soon on
> > love in 3 dimensional online environments, and this sort of love
> - the
> > tragic, the dramatic, the love of romeo and jullette, pop music
> and
> > hollywood, and much discussed throughout philosophy is really
> just a
> > physiological response sparked by a set of characteristics in the
> love
> > object (which doesn't necessarily have to be a person or the
> representation
> > of person), and the context and availability of that object.
> >
> >  The more unattainable the object, the more desirable and
> embedded it
> > becomes in our neural activity, producing a whole raft of
> physical effects
> > from anxiety, palpitations, intense focus, breathlessness, severe
> > depression, sleeplessness, etc etc, hence upping the likelihood
> of tragedy,
> > drama, violence  and sacrifice..
> >
> > Neatly circular hey.. and definitely unromantic..
> >
> > Melinda
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Owen et al,
> > >
> > > Love and sacrifice are intimately intertwined throughout
> history. Or
> > > should we say surrender rather? But, what is sacrificed or what
> is
> > > surrendered to?
> > >
> > > In a Lover's Disourse Barthes says he wants to say 'I love you'
> in
> > > Spanish - te quiero -  because the subject is dropped in
> Spanish
> > > syntax. And even more preferably, he would like a language that
> drops
> > > the object as well. The subject - object sacrificed, excluded,
> > > eradicated, the word 'love' becomes affirmative. In love 'I'
> don't
> > > exist - which is very contrary to contemporary culture of
> taking
> > > control, getting in charge etc that situates us in the violence
> of
> > > language, control issues and so forth.
> > >
> > > Barthes also says he wants the lover to be a 'mute object'.
> > > Interestingly enough he calls the lover an object here in the
> > > discourse of love. A case in point for the 'tyranny of
> language'? As
> > > soon as language returns, we fall into its violence, and the
> violence
> > > and hence the I need to be sacrificed, if we want to surrender
> to the
> > > affirmative  'love' [you].
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > empyre forum
> > empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> > http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> >
>
>
>
> --
> -- Prof. Dr. Sérgio Roclaw Basbaum
> -- Coord. Tecnologia e Mídias Digitais
> -- Pós-Graduação Tec.da Inteligência e Design Digital - TIDD
> (PUC-SP)
>