[-empyre-] chris sullivan p.S.

[christopher sullivan]

Hi Melanie, I had written a bog epic thing, and then my computer died, so I will
start from scratch. I teach in a school that is known for experimentation, so I
sometimes have to consider conventional problems in unconventional films. A
good example of this to me is Mary and Max, and Madame Tutli-Putli, great
important pieces with narrative holes. how could that man in Brooklyn possibly
lead this young woman into a suicidal spiral? just does not work in my heart.
and what exactly is going on on that train, creepy and visually beautiful, but
why are these people being mean to this woman? just does not click. 
we are all children of out times and environments, and one must always be
suspect of their surroundings. My students who do very experimental works,
usually have conventional problems, plot, what is at stake, who are the main
characters, how are the characters changed.. and my conventional students, need
more nuance, more red hearings in the plot, more interesting manipulation of
time, and also, very often making films that do not challenge their viewers,
who are more sophisticated than they realize. I like what Umberto Echo says
about the perfect audience, it is someone who is interested in what you are
interested in, but smarter than you, and not easily impressed. Chris

Quoting "Melanie Beisswenger (Asst Prof)" <Melanie at ntu.edu.sg>:

> Hi Chris,
> 
> great topic to bring up. These are the opposite sides of the animation
> spectrum, from unique visual expression to the 'art of photo realism'. In
> some way it is almost like asking if a photo realistic painter is a painter
> or a photographer after all...
> As the quest for photo realism in the animation of the human form is the most
> difficult and thus for some most challenging aspect of animation - the so
> called holy grail of overcoming the uncanny valley - it has attracted a
> considerable large following of filmmakers, animators and artist following
> this route and producing an array of quite awful films with creepy characters
> on the way. As one of the first examples of overcoming the uncanny valley,
> 'Benjamin Button' has given us a glimpse of what can be done and I am sure
> we'll see more digital faces in the future which we won't be able to tell
> from real. Avatar is a slightly different expression as the navi feaces are
> not technically human faces, overall superbly executed animation wise.
> I am hopeful and do believe that once we have achieved this kind of photo
> realism in a wider scale, we needn't worry too much about it anymore, as it
> will free up animators to express themselves even more in new non photo
> realistic ways.
> 
> Cheers
> Melanie
> 
> ________________________________________
> From: empyre-bounces at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> [empyre-bounces at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au] On Behalf Of christopher sullivan
> [csulli at saic.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:11 PM
> To: christopher sullivan
> Cc: soft_skinned_space
> Subject: Re: [-empyre-] chris sullivan p.S.
> 
> An interesting thing to think about in terms of form, extremes of crudeness
> and
> rough edges that are a big part of people like Phil Mulloy, Paul Fierlinger,
> Don
> Hertzfeld, Lewis klahr, Martha Collburn, William Kentridge, Yuri Norstien (I
> don't think I spelled one of those correct, but time is too precious. All of
> these animators expose the material elements of there work, and in ways force
> a
> two dimensional reading of the film surface, Illusion of space it fleeting
> when
> there at all. Yuri Norstien at a talk here in Chicago spoke of how he feels
> that the closer you get to an illusion of reality, the farther you get from
> what makes animation it's own language. what do people think about illusory
> and
> non illusory cinematic space in animation? Is photo realism, not animation
> anymore but digital cinema?
> have you seen this stuff. very interesting.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_1zzPCnyOI&feature=related
> 
> 
> Quoting christopher sullivan <csulli at saic.edu>:
> 
> > by the way, I show power and water in my "not quite animation" day in my
> > alternative animation history class. It is a wonderful film. you should
> all
> > try
> > to get Pat out to show The Decay OF Fiction, his amazing film, that
> > unfortunately he does not like, but I sure do. Chris.
> >
> >
> > Quoting christopher sullivan <csulli at saic.edu>:
> >
> > >
> > > Hi Eric, I do think that certain technologies or circumstances dictate
> > trends
> > > in
> > > work. For instance the non verbal history of independent art films in
> the
> > > 70's
> > > and 80's, was directly related to issues of french versus English in
> > Canada,
> > > and the fact that the Netherlands, Italy, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia,
> > where
> > > important places that could not count on language to engage a wider
> world.
> >
> > >
> > > And for that matter the frame by frame process does break down time and
> > lead
> > > to
> > > different ways of looking at the world. But I am questioning starting
> with
> > > formal notions of Code, or digital culture as subjects. I guess it gets
> > back
> > > to
> > > notions of modernist painting, which is about putting color on a flat
> > > surface.
> > > All of the great works that I am attracted to in animation, have
> something
> > > inherently frame by frame about them, but there is an underlying content
> > > that
> > > is being negotiated.
> > >
> > > I think that animation because of it's labor, tends to give birth to the
> > > wondering pilgrim, the emptied city, the lone figure in a minimal world,
> > > because you just can't draw fifty people, CGI is changing this, but
> these
> > > limits are good too. They are like the limits of independent theater, no
> > > dance
> > > numbers, no effects, just words and a few bodies. I also think that the
> > > limits
> > > of animation, create a need to condense time, in ways that live action
> > does
> > > not.
> > > and this leads to it's odd sense of time, I hope you have all seen Cat
> > Soup,
> > > amazing time play in that film.
> > >
> > >
> > > Quoting Eric Patrick <ericp at northwestern.edu>:
> > >
> > > > Hello All,
> > > >
> > > > Eric Patrick here.  Rather than repeat my bio, I'll just jump right
> > > > in...  I've been making animated films now for twenty years, and the
> one
> >
> > > > thing I've become convinced of is that animation is a ritual act.  My
> > > > own work underscores this in it's experiments with narrative without
> the
> >
> > > > confines of character development or plot...  rather, I often find
> > > > myself creating associative connections over causal ones.  I'm
> certainly
> >
> > > > not the first that has noticed this, but perhaps all animators find it
> > > > on their own terms...  small repetitive acts, done over long periods
> of
> > > > time...  a withdrawal from day to day life.  The very act seems like a
> > > > description of an alchemist's chamber, saying a rosary, kabuki
> theatre.
> > > >
> > > > In my particular case, I choose a technique that in some way comments
> on
> >
> > > > the ideas embedded in my work.  This is one of those things that I
> find
> > > > to be unique about animation (though I would argue that new media has
> > > > this ability too): the ability to orchestrate the concept into the
> very
> > > > fabric of the image through the technique that is utilized.  It's that
> > > > relationship between form and content that makes animation quite so
> > > > unique.  That these techniques involve increasingly preoccupied states
> > > > of consciousness only adds to the ritual effect of animation.  It's no
> > > > wonder then that we can see such a wide interest in metaphysics
> > > > throughout animation history.
> > > >
> > > > As an animator stepping into a group dedicated to new media, I'm
> > > > interested in finding where my experience may cross over with yours.
> > > > Perhaps we can also weave with Chris Sullivan's intro, because, as he
> > > > states that technology is a tool but not a subject, I am almost
> > > > inferring that the process can become a subject.  I have shown Pat
> > > > O'Neil's work "Water and Power" to students, and interestingly, they
> > > > told me that it completely changed their relationship to after
> effects.
> >
> > > > O'Neil's work somehow seems like it could only be conceived and
> executed
> >
> > > > on an optical printer, though it can obviously very easily be created
> > > > with something like after effects.  While I agree that technology is a
> > > > tool, do certain tools not engender certain kinds of work?
> > > >
> > > > best,
> > > >
> > > > Eric
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Christopher Sullivan
> > > Dept. of Film/Video/New Media
> > > School of the Art Institute of Chicago
> > > 112 so michigan
> > > Chicago Ill 60603
> > > csulli at saic.edu
> > > 312-345-3802
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > empyre forum
> > > empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> > > http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> > >
> >
> >
> > Christopher Sullivan
> > Dept. of Film/Video/New Media
> > School of the Art Institute of Chicago
> > 112 so michigan
> > Chicago Ill 60603
> > csulli at saic.edu
> > 312-345-3802
> >
> 
> 
> Christopher Sullivan
> Dept. of Film/Video/New Media
> School of the Art Institute of Chicago
> 112 so michigan
> Chicago Ill 60603
> csulli at saic.edu
> 312-345-3802
> _______________________________________________
> empyre forum
> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> 
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Christopher Sullivan
Dept. of Film/Video/New Media
School of the Art Institute of Chicago
112 so michigan
Chicago Ill 60603
csulli at saic.edu
312-345-3802