[-empyre-] empyre Digest, Vol 68, Issue 9
Kriss Ravetto
K.Ravetto at ed.ac.uk
Wed Jul 14 02:07:52 EST 2010
Hi All,
My question for Julian and Eugenio is: how is intimate as you are
using it different from secret? Why use intimacy when talking about
social networking, or networking, or protocol?
Christina, thanks for watching the interview I did with Raul Ruiz.
You are right Ruiz is very interested in the connection between affect
and cognitive science. He came up to Scotland to work with the MRI-lab
in an attempt to trace the dimensions of perception of cinema. But
for him cinema is something that thinks (it is poetic), and, if I
understand him correctly, not ideological. I think he is interested in
the complex, uncertain, and emergent. This is why hell is more
interesting than paradise.
Bruno and air-conditioning, what a thought!!!
Dante was a bit older than Bruno, but he put sorcerers in the 8th
circle of hell. Though some of Bruno's plays would have landed him
only in the 2nd circle (the works that got him in trouble with the
Church).
Bruno was a contemporary of Galileo (though about 20 years older).
It has been some time since I have read Bruno on magic, but I remember
it being rather particular, he was not a practitioner. Are you
referring to his Articuli adversus mathematicos? Ruiz is much better
versed in this than I on this. In fact, he is deeply interested in,
and well read on the Baroque. His style has been called neo-Baroque.
Maybe this is why he is so interested in using terms like "god's
absence" and "hell."
I am however, interested in the return of the term "magic" as applied
to cinema (Dullac, Epstein, Morin), after being discredited as a
scholarly topic in the 17th century. Many theorists insist on using
the term, but it is no longer a belief, it starts to fill a
psychological need in the absence of religion. Something like the
imaginary fills in for belief. It would be interesting to see what
James has to say about the interest in magic from the part of
anthropology since much of the contemporary work on magic comes from
that field or early modern history.
It is very hard to talk about Ruiz's practice, since he has made so
many films (and applied so many different cinematic styles), and I
have only watched him make films with students. I have never seen him
on set, only listened to some of his pitching future projects. When
he talks about shamanism he speaks more about ritual and repetition
(an act of habit)as a form of continual reconnection and change. So
the sacred becomes some thing very practical, something in continual
conversation with the environment and the way we react to it.
Shamanistic Cinema, as I read it, has to do with shape-shifting
(Ruiz's interest in Novalis and Montagu. ?shamanic sequences,? are
sequences that allow
you to easily jump from one world to the other, and to explore
potentialities, rather than some preconceived notion of sense
(narrative meaning).
"A shamanic ?lm ... would be more like a land mine: it explodes among
these potential ?lms and sometimes provides chain reactions, allowing
other events
to come into being. In the same way, the shamanic sequence makes us
believe we remember events which we have not experienced; and it puts
these fabricated memories in touch with genuine memories which we
never thought to see again, and which now rise up and march towards us
like the living dead in a horror movie. This mechanism is the ?rst
step in a process which could permit us to pass from our own world
into the animal, vegetable, and mineral kingdom, even to the stars,
before returning to humanity again.?
? Raul Ruiz
I guess this could bring us back to social networking and creativity.
Quoting empyre-request at gamera.cofa.unsw.edu.au:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Creativity as a social ontology (Julian Oliver)
> 2. Re: Creativity as a social ontology: UpStage
> (helen varley jamieson)
> 3. Re: Creativity as a social ontology: UpStage (Simon Biggs)
> 4. Re: Creativity as a social ontology ({ brad brace })
> 5. Hello from Hell (Kriss Ravetto)
> 6. Re: Creativity as a social ontology (carol-ann braun)
> 7. Re: Hello from Hell (naxsmash)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 01:03:35 +0200
> From: Julian Oliver <julian at julianoliver.com>
> To: soft_skinned_space <empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [-empyre-] Creativity as a social ontology
> Message-ID: <20100711230335.GF3877 at mail.ljudmila.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> ..on Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 09:32:52AM -0700, Eugenio Tisselli wrote:
>> Julian,
>>
>> >
>> > > Can we think of an example of an "intimate" network?
>> >
>> > Sure, you mean a computer network right? Examples might be
>> > an invite only code
>> > repository and forum, a videogame LAN, the LAN in your
>> > house, an Intranet,
>> > darknets, IRC channels (#botany, #math, #radioastronomy,
>> > #security on servers
>> > like freenode, ircnet) etc.
>>
>> I wonder if exclusiveness (not necessarily understood as a negative feature)
>> is the only necessary ingredient for intimacy... ?
>
> The very basis of a community depends on a logic of exclusion; any community
> represents a grouping around a common interest, whether that be
> needs, fetisches
> or topics. To defend those interests - even if that requires
> excluding others -
> is to invest in the health of the community.
>
> A society itself can be understood as an expression of exclusion; membership
> is only granted to those that prove compatibility with the existing
> interest(s).
> For this reason, a discussion around 'Intimate networks' could be more aptly
> (but less fashionably) named 'Exclusive Networks'.
>
> The Local Area Network of your apartment or school expresses this
> exclusion with
> (the somewhat depolitised) WEP or WPA encryption. An IRC channel
> excludes those
> that do not demonstrate respect for the channel topic. A town in the South of
> the U.S.A might do so by making the newcomers feel generally horrible about
> being there until they expressly prove a compatible interest.
>
> Exlusion has an awful name, largely due to xenophobic, classist projects
> throughout history, but we're all already practicing exclusion in
> the interests
> of our cherished communities every day. In consideration of this topic, one
> could say any social network is the industrialisation of social exclusion
> (network anxiety) - "Am I your friend or not"?
>
> Cheers!
>
> --
> Julian Oliver
> home: New Zealand
> based: Berlin, Germany
> currently: Berlin, Germany
> about: http://julianoliver.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:44:37 +0100
> From: helen varley jamieson <helen at creative-catalyst.com>
> To: soft_skinned_space <empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [-empyre-] Creativity as a social ontology: UpStage
> Message-ID: <4C3AD5F5.3020607 at creative-catalyst.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> thanks simon, & eugenio, & everyone for last week's discussion :)
>
> as one last note, i have been asked off-list about recordings of UpStage
> shows & i thought there might be other people on the list who are
> interested in learning more about it. we don't make recordings of whole
> shows available but there are showreels with edited excerpts from the
> past festivals on the web site. you need to go to the page for the
> festival (e.g. http://upstage.org.nz/blog/?page_id=210 is the page on
> our blog for last year's 090909 festival) & scroll down a bit to find
> the video. these showreels have a compilation of short clips from
> performances that give an indication of the variety of work that is
> being done.
>
> also, tomorrow (tuesday 13 july) at 10am uk time we have one of our
> regular open sessions, where interested people can have a guest log-in &
> learn how the environment works. if anyone is interested in
> participating in that please email me, & there is more info & a time
> converter link on the web site, http://www.upstage.org.nz
>
> h : )
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> helen varley jamieson: creative catalyst
> helen at creative-catalyst.com
> http://www.creative-catalyst.com
> http://www.avatarbodycollision.org
> http://www.upstage.org.nz
> ____________________________________________________________
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 15:45:49 +0100
> From: "Simon Biggs" <s.biggs at eca.ac.uk>
> To: <helen at creative-catalyst.com>, "soft_skinned_space"
> <empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [-empyre-] Creativity as a social ontology: UpStage
> Message-ID: <C860E92D.28BA8%s.biggs at eca.ac.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Hi Helen (and Eugenio)
>
> Many thanks to you for kicking off this month's discussion. It has been
> extremely interesting with diverse positions becoming evident as the week
> progressed. A number of interesting insights (at least for me) have emerged.
> I hope you can both continue to contribute to the discussion as it now
> progresses into its second week.
>
> Best
>
> Simon
>
>
> Simon Biggs
> s.biggs at eca.ac.uk simon at littlepig.org.uk
> Skype: simonbiggsuk
> http://www.littlepig.org.uk/
>
> Research Professor edinburgh college of art
> http://www.eca.ac.uk/
> Creative Interdisciplinary Research into CoLlaborative Environments
> http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/
> Electronic Literature as a Model of Creativity and Innovation in Practice
> http://www.elmcip.net/
> Centre for Film, Performance and Media Arts
> http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/film-performance-media-arts
>
>
>> From: helen varley jamieson <helen at creative-catalyst.com>
>> Reply-To: <helen at creative-catalyst.com>, soft_skinned_space
>> <empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
>> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:44:37 +0100
>> To: soft_skinned_space <empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
>> Subject: Re: [-empyre-] Creativity as a social ontology: UpStage
>>
>> thanks simon, & eugenio, & everyone for last week's discussion :)
>>
>> as one last note, i have been asked off-list about recordings of UpStage
>> shows & i thought there might be other people on the list who are
>> interested in learning more about it. we don't make recordings of whole
>> shows available but there are showreels with edited excerpts from the
>> past festivals on the web site. you need to go to the page for the
>> festival (e.g. http://upstage.org.nz/blog/?page_id=210 is the page on
>> our blog for last year's 090909 festival) & scroll down a bit to find
>> the video. these showreels have a compilation of short clips from
>> performances that give an indication of the variety of work that is
>> being done.
>>
>> also, tomorrow (tuesday 13 july) at 10am uk time we have one of our
>> regular open sessions, where interested people can have a guest log-in &
>> learn how the environment works. if anyone is interested in
>> participating in that please email me, & there is more info & a time
>> converter link on the web site, http://www.upstage.org.nz
>>
>> h : )
>> ____________________________________________________________
>>
>> helen varley jamieson: creative catalyst
>> helen at creative-catalyst.com
>> http://www.creative-catalyst.com
>> http://www.avatarbodycollision.org
>> http://www.upstage.org.nz
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> _______________________________________________
>> empyre forum
>> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
>> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
>
>
>
> Edinburgh College of Art (eca) is a charity registered in Scotland,
> number SC009201
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:00:59 -0700 (PDT)
> From: { brad brace } <bbrace at eskimo.com>
> To: Julian Oliver <julian at julianoliver.com>
> Cc: soft_skinned_space <empyre at gamera.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [-empyre-] Creativity as a social ontology
> Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.4.58.1007120838290.6116 at eskimo.com>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
> (Julian, I'll "reply to all" because my contributions to
> this network are ironically/routinely blocked. ;))
>
> I concur with your statement but would add that exclusion is
> often predicated by political-notions of scarcity/trust.,
> ie., your LAN is 'protected' against unauthorized
> bandwidth-use or intrusion. When in reality, there is no
> scarcity, no pressing need for ever-greater/new
> production... only equitable distribution.
>
> My FB account with 5000 appreciative 'friends' was
> immediately disabled once I began to sell collections of
> (enhanced/enlarged) profile portraits. The hierarchical
> social network hasn't changed a bit.
>
> I've moved the project here:
>
> PROXY Gallery
> http://cart.iabrace.com
>
> /:b
>
>
>
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2010, Julian Oliver wrote:
>
>> > I wonder if exclusiveness (not necessarily understood as a
>> negative feature)
>> > is the only necessary ingredient for intimacy... ?
>>
>> The very basis of a community depends on a logic of exclusion; any community
>> represents a grouping around a common interest, whether that be
>> needs, fetisches
>> or topics. To defend those interests - even if that requires
>> excluding others -
>> is to invest in the health of the community.
>>
>> A society itself can be understood as an expression of exclusion; membership
>> is only granted to those that prove compatibility with the existing
>> interest(s).
>> For this reason, a discussion around 'Intimate networks' could be more aptly
>> (but less fashionably) named 'Exclusive Networks'.
>>
>> The Local Area Network of your apartment or school expresses this
>> exclusion with
>> (the somewhat depolitised) WEP or WPA encryption. An IRC channel
>> excludes those
>> that do not demonstrate respect for the channel topic. A town in
>> the South of
>> the U.S.A might do so by making the newcomers feel generally horrible about
>> being there until they expressly prove a compatible interest.
>>
>> Exlusion has an awful name, largely due to xenophobic, classist projects
>> throughout history, but we're all already practicing exclusion in
>> the interests
>> of our cherished communities every day. In consideration of this topic, one
>> could say any social network is the industrialisation of social exclusion
>> (network anxiety) - "Am I your friend or not"?
>>
>
>
>
>
> global islands project:
> http://bbrace.net/id.html
>
> "We fill the craters left by the bombs
> And once again we sing
> And once again we sow
> Because life never surrenders."
> -- anonymous Vietnamese poem
>
> "Nothing can be said about the sea."
> -- Mr Selvam, Akkrapattai, India 2004
>
> { brad brace } <<<<< bbrace at eskimo.com >>>> ~finger for pgp
>
> --- bbs: brad brace sound ---
> --- http://69.64.229.114:8000 ---
>
> .
> The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project >>>> posted since 1994 <<<<
>
> + + + serial ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/b/bbrace
> + + + eccentric ftp:// (your-site-here!)
> + + + continuous hotline://artlyin.ftr.va.com.au
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> + + + imagery http://kunst.noemata.net/12hr/
>
> News: alt.binaries.pictures.12hr alt.binaries.pictures.misc
> alt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.misc alt.12hr
>
> . 12hr email
> subscriptions => http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/buy-into.html
>
>
> . Other | Mirror: http://www.eskimo.com/~bbrace/bbrace.html
> Projects | Reverse Solidus: http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/
> | http://bbrace.net
>
> . Blog | http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/wordpress/
>
> . IM | bbrace at unstable.nl
> . IRC | #bbrace
> . ICQ | 109352289
> . SIP | bbrace at ekiga.net
> | registered linux user #323978
> ~>
> I am not a victim Coercion is natural
> I am a messenger Freedom is artifical
>
> /:b
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:13:49 +0100
> From: Kriss Ravetto <K.Ravetto at ed.ac.uk>
> To: empyre at gamera.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> Subject: [-empyre-] Hello from Hell
> Message-ID: <20100712161349.w50pixlk0k404sgo at www.staffmail.ed.ac.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
> format="flowed"
>
>
> Hi [-empyre-] Creativity as a social ontology community,
>
> I have been baking here on the East Coast of the US with the record
> heat wave, and I agree with the point about creativity and temperature
> (I do not feel very creative). Apologies if I am not coherent, there
> is still some morning breeze here.
>
> Given that I come to the question of creativity and social networking
> through critical theory ? I teach film and media theory at the
> University of Edinburgh. I am aware I am going to change the tone a
> bit. I would like to start by rethinking a few points (particularly
> terms) that came up in last week?s discussion, and ask if James and
> Simon had some thoughts about these issues:
>
> 1) ?a tendency to focus only on the visual.? Hasn?t this focus on
> the visual changed with immersive and more interactive work that
> attempts to be more affective (trigger kinesthetic as well as
> emotional responses)?
>
> 2) ?complex nature of our experience? ? How do we understand
> experience? Isn?t it also creative? Or are we back to oppositions
> about active / passive, the singular and the general. Experience
> seems to fall into the category of what Deleuze called the problematic
> since it cannot be singular (yet we perceive it as such), since it
> requires action, interaction, mediation, and some creative
> interpretation. When we talk about ?our experience? are we talking
> about something that is also a creative network ? that is not owned by
> anyone?
>
> 3) artist genius as Foucault argued is now a question of signature
> which means copyright and legality. The social science network seems
> to operate on different principles and I would argue that it is a
> platform designed to produce social creative ontology.
>
> 4) I am curious about what people mean by the ?ideology of the
> visual.? If images think then they must not think in terms of
> language, but in terms of images, no? Therefore, if we are talking
> ideology, aren?t we talking the creation of visual concepts. The
> problem here is can a single image think, or do we need a chain of
> images to think (like the Lacanian chain of signifiers, i.e. the
> cinematic)? This has been debated since the 1960s (Metz, Pasolini,
> Dayan, Mulvey, etc.)
>
> 5) When we talk about sense, we talk about it as tacit knowledge.
> Where does sense take place: take vision for instance, do we claim it
> only takes place in the brain? Or are there other interfaces? Do they
> make sense?
>
>
> 6) When we talk about Privacy or secrecy / trade secrets (i.e., no
> open lab) then yes, innovation needs privacy in its inception. (This
> is the subject of my husband's Mario Biagioli?s, current work, "From
> Ciphers to Confidentiality" in States of Secrecy).
>
>
> 7) Intimacy leads us in a completely different direction. Privacy is
> the problematic term here: when we refer to secrecy (in terms of
> innovation, we are talking trade secrets, and nothing intimate), but
> rights to privacy do touch on this, yet again, privacy seems to me,
> not to be intimate. Innovation or creative communities need not be
> intimate, unless we are redefining what this term means. Also, I am
> not sure that intimacy is related to place.
>
> But this leads to the question of platforms as space. How does a site
> relate to space? Yes, we can reveal intimate secrets on such sites,
> but there is something spatially distinct an estrangement, and at the
> same time the spectacular (as Victor Burgin argues).
>
>
> --
> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:54:06 +0200
> From: carol-ann braun <carol-ann.braun at wanadoo.fr>
> To: soft_skinned_space <empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [-empyre-] Creativity as a social ontology
> Message-ID: <C861073E.3E124%carol-ann.braun at wanadoo.fr>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
>
>
>
>
> In response to Julian's remark :
>
>> In consideration of this topic, one
>> could say any social network is the industrialisation of social exclusion
>> (network anxiety) - "Am I your friend or not"?
>
> Hard to disagree.
>
> There are other ways of broaching the idea of exclusion and the creative
> potential of a given on-line community, however.
>
> The approach is a hybrid of local and networked initiatives.
>
> The objective: build social networks that give a voice to those excluded
> from democratic institutions or processes.
>
> Here's a modest example of what such hybrid initiatives can entail:
>
> Phase 1: get actors to prepare sketches on a given question; get kids from
> community centers to see the sketches; have a web site archive reactions to
> the topic.
>
> Phase 2: get kids to use their mobile phones to make their own reportages on
> the questions raised; actors and coaches help structure the process.
>
> Phase 3: bring the web-site into the creative process : people "vote" on
> each reportage, the website helps visualize opinion trends.
>
> Phase 3: Organize several "restitutions" of the contents during neighborhood
> fairs, picnics or during specific evenings at the local theater (in which
> case, the website serves both as a "d?cor" and an "actor" in its own right)
>
> Phase 4: Link this work up to town-hall meetings. The website serves -
> again, in a hybrid fashion - to include the voices of people who might not
> be present in the flesh, but who have had their word to say on a given
> topic.
>
> Ongoing : Continue to focus on bridging the gap between local issues, local
> telephone-reportages, networked responses and local events.
>
>
> The mayor of Paris, Bertrand Delanoe, and one of his top advisors, Pierre
> Mansat, are funding such initiatives in an effort to use digital
> technologies to include Paris' suburbs in the construction of "Le Grand
> Paris", or Paris-Metropole...a vast, emerging "community".
>
>
> Carol-Ann Holzberger-Braun
> Paris, France.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 15:04:33 -0700
> From: naxsmash <naxsmash at mac.com>
> To: soft_skinned_space <empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [-empyre-] Hello from Hell
> Message-ID: <EBDD31F7-A8E0-4410-A07D-75C75E346A3E at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> dear Kriss
>
> your interview with Raul Ruiz is fantastic and he himself gets at some
> of this especially your 1) and 2) and 4) and 5) below. I am
> referring to this interview on vimeo:
> http://vimeo.com/433722?pg=embed&sec=433722
>
> I was so inspired by his extended excursion into the theory of the
> extended collusions of Giordano Bruno-- vinicula I think it is? and
> magic
>
> I'd been aware of Giordano Bruno for a long time since, after all,
> he's been in the Inferno since 1200 when Dante put him there (which
> circle?)
>
> I think that to turn to Giordano Bruno's thinking about affective
> exchanges or flows as a cosmology is pretty useful especially if you
> have no air conditioning.
>
>
> Perhaps you could talk with us about your ideas about Raul Ruiz's
> practice and how his view of the cinema (that place of god's absence,
> e. g. cinema is hell) and how to make films
> has much to do with a shamanistic understanding of a collusion or
> colloidal suspension of vision and kinesthesia and story.... ?
>
> inspired by you,
>
> thanks
>
> Christina
>
>
>
>
>
> naxsmash
> naxsmash at mac.com
>
>
> christina mcphee
>
> http://christinamcphee.net
> http://naxsmash.net
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 12, 2010, at 8:13 AM, Kriss Ravetto wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi [-empyre-] Creativity as a social ontology community,
>>
>> I have been baking here on the East Coast of the US with the record
>> heat wave, and I agree with the point about creativity and
>> temperature (I do not feel very creative). Apologies if I am not
>> coherent, there is still some morning breeze here.
>>
>> Given that I come to the question of creativity and social
>> networking through critical theory ? I teach film and media theory
>> at the University of Edinburgh. I am aware I am going to change the
>> tone a bit. I would like to start by rethinking a few points
>> (particularly terms) that came up in last week?s discussion, and
>> ask if James and Simon had some thoughts about these issues:
>>
>> 1) ?a tendency to focus only on the visual.? Hasn?t this focus on
>> the visual changed with immersive and more interactive work that
>> attempts to be more affective (trigger kinesthetic as well as
>> emotional responses)?
>>
>> 2) ?complex nature of our experience? ? How do we understand
>> experience? Isn?t it also creative? Or are we back to oppositions
>> about active / passive, the singular and the general. Experience
>> seems to fall into the category of what Deleuze called the
>> problematic since it cannot be singular (yet we perceive it as
>> such), since it requires action, interaction, mediation, and some
>> creative interpretation. When we talk about ?our experience? are we
>> talking about something that is also a creative network ? that is
>> not owned by anyone?
>>
>> 3) artist genius as Foucault argued is now a question of signature
>> which means copyright and legality. The social science network
>> seems to operate on different principles and I would argue that it
>> is a platform designed to produce social creative ontology.
>>
>> 4) I am curious about what people mean by the ?ideology of the
>> visual.? If images think then they must not think in terms of
>> language, but in terms of images, no? Therefore, if we are talking
>> ideology, aren?t we talking the creation of visual concepts. The
>> problem here is can a single image think, or do we need a chain of
>> images to think (like the Lacanian chain of signifiers, i.e. the
>> cinematic)? This has been debated since the 1960s (Metz, Pasolini,
>> Dayan, Mulvey, etc.)
>>
>> 5) When we talk about sense, we talk about it as tacit knowledge.
>> Where does sense take place: take vision for instance, do we claim
>> it only takes place in the brain? Or are there other interfaces? Do
>> they make sense?
>>
>>
>> 6) When we talk about Privacy or secrecy / trade secrets (i.e., no
>> open lab) then yes, innovation needs privacy in its inception. (This
>> is the subject of my husband's Mario Biagioli?s, current work, "From
>> Ciphers to Confidentiality" in States of Secrecy).
>>
>>
>> 7) Intimacy leads us in a completely different direction. Privacy is
>> the problematic term here: when we refer to secrecy (in terms of
>> innovation, we are talking trade secrets, and nothing intimate), but
>> rights to privacy do touch on this, yet again, privacy seems to me,
>> not to be intimate. Innovation or creative communities need not be
>> intimate, unless we are redefining what this term means. Also, I
>> am not sure that intimacy is related to place.
>>
>> But this leads to the question of platforms as space. How does a
>> site relate to space? Yes, we can reveal intimate secrets on such
>> sites, but there is something spatially distinct an estrangement,
>> and at the same time the spectacular (as Victor Burgin argues).
>>
>>
>> --
>> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
>> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
>> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
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> End of empyre Digest, Vol 68, Issue 9
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