[-empyre-] post

Mon Mar 1 05:35:12 EST 2010

To Renata et all

I was with Michael Grey yesterday just by happenstance and I told him I
loved this piece (had just been looking at it by happenstance) and he said,
"You know, it's kind of an animation"

(It's 2 series:   Beginning, MIddle, End; First, Second, Third)

http://citroid.com/friedrichwarp_lg.jpg

Michael Joaquin Grey
Middle, 1993

ALso re: time and animation. I guess this has been written about but, we do
say, "animate the past or animate the future, not cinemate it." (ow?)

I've enjoyed this a lot. Feel like I've made some nice new connections
neuronal as well as human.

Yours,
Thyrza

On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 1:09 AM, christopher sullivan <csulli at saic.edu>wrote:

>
> Hi Christina, yes hopefully they are the stuff of all art, but sometimes I
> feel
> that animation is not included so I press the point, yes on the graphic
> novelists who are doing such great work. love Dan Clowes Velvet Glove cast
> in
> iron, Tina, is I think one of the most fascinating characters ever created,
> when she bites her arm I could die. also the wonderfull Fun Home by Alison
> Buchdel. hopefully we will fight these battles of clarity and poetics until
> the
> end, never winning but getting close. good night, Chris.
>
> Quoting Christina Spiesel <christina.spiesel at yale.edu>:
>
> > Christopher,
> >
> > The issues you outline below are, in some lights, at play in all art.
> > What do we show? Tell? And is what we show, do we rely on poetic
> > association or on the head of the nail literal presentation? How do we
> > imagine our audiences? How long does it take to "read"? How long does it
> > last? What does it have to do with human time? Historical time? Cosmic
> > time? And time and rhythm? I am curious that the name of Scott McCloud
> > hasn't come up. [But maybe I missed it in the wonderful flow of
> > conversation....] I think his metacognitive work on the graphic novel
> > (comics in the broadest definition) is very on point for animation.
> >
> > Christina
> >
> >
> > christopher sullivan wrote:
> > > Hi Thyrza, when you decide what is hardy and what is not is can always
> lead
> > to
> > > trouble, trouble is good, I go there all the time.
> > >      Temporality and time are pretty big issues. I think as an animator
> one
> > of
> > > the real challenges is presenting real time images, with silence and
> > stillness.
> > > Animation is often thought of as something that should be clear,
> > informational,
> > > and when one drifts from that. audiences can be confused.
> > >      In the new film Country Doctor, by Koji Yamamura , there is a bit
> of
> > this.
> > > the film is beautiful, but sometimes you want it to shut up, visually
> and
> > audio
> > > wise (I would say this about my work too) . but perhaps it is animators
> > trying
> > > to respond to audiences desire for clarity. I want Prit Pran who I
> love,
> > to
> > > shut up sometime. But animators feel compelled to clarify and give
> > context,
> > > perhaps it is an impulse from animation being a commercial vehicle for
> > humor,
> > > for most of it's life.
> > >      Igor Zovalov, is willing to shut up, which I like(see Milch) very
> > > depressing but interesting. by the way, I love the Quays and they are
> > > paramount, but I would like to here people talk about some of the other
> > great
> > > animators who are out there now. have a good day.
> > >
> > >
> > > Quoting T Goodeve <tgoodeve at gmail.com>:
> > >
> > >
> > >> Hello everyone:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I'm not sure I posted correctly. I sent this last night as a reply.
> Sorry
> > if
> > >> I'm confusing anyone. Thyrza
> > >>
> > >> Sorry I’ve been so lax as a discussant-generator but here I am with
> some
> > >> thoughts and reflections. If it’s okay just an aside first: off the
> top
> > of
> > >> my fingertips—many of you make stuff you love and live for, also write
> > about
> > >> with great passion, and the animated worldscape is still and ever will
> be
> > >> one of magic and wonder I hope (you have the romantic here), i.e.,
> > endless
> > >> visual and aural reimagings via its ability, or definition, whether
> > anlogue
> > >> or digital, to do anything and everything within and beyond the
> spacetime
> > >> continuum. But sometimes I miss the basic humor, wonder, and sheer
> “wow”
> > of
> > >> the simplicity of animation. I mentioned in a post. The blank page and
> > the
> > >> dot. We lose track, myself included, analyzing the life out of things
> > >> sometimes and to do this with animation seems particularly perverse. I
> > >> realize I set myself up for a bit of ridicule here but alas, someone
> has
> > to
> > >> speak up for the puppet doll in *Street of Crocodiles* who cradles the
> > bare
> > >> light bulb baby in its arm and brings it back to life with light, or
> the
> > >> frayed and earnest bunny who does his best to keep up with the
> spinning
> > >> demented ping pong balls and a pair of disembodied knee socks and
> > slippers
> > >> moving up and down on tip toes in the Quays “Are We Still Married” —up
> > and
> > >> down, up and down. I think Christopher Sullivan was trying to get at
> this
> > >> but not evieryone is out to do what he does nor interested in the way
> I am
> > or
> > >> the Quays or for that matter, those who use it for visualization, but
> > >> depending on why you do what you do we are here to discuss the
> > breakthrough
> > >> insights of theory and technology and animation, but it’s just
> sometimes
> > >> I’ve felt we’ve let the technology get away with doing too much of the
> > >> talking, not that it doesn’t have a lot to say.
> > >>
> > >> But a more hardy, if overly general, topic is temporality and time,
> > now-time
> > >> vs say the way cinema’s capturing, sculpting, control of time was such
> a
> > >> huge part of its magic. Siegfried Kracauer describe in an essay how
> > powerful
> > >> just “having” the wind in the trees —a moment— captured on film is for
> > him.
> > >> How different from one of my students when I showed some film, perhaps
> > >> Tarkovsky,” Why does he keep leaving the camera on the trees so long?”
> > >> Students of cinema are different. We know this: ADD and short
> digitized
> > >> attention spans. But how do you see this in your worlds of animation
> > either
> > >> in terms of resistance or something emerging that is part of this. One
> > thing
> > >> I thought was very relevant was the post of the shift tilt which is
> > amazing
> > >> and disturbing in this respect. Lots to say about it: not only the
> time
> > >> lapse but the way the world is miniaturized. Here the real profilmic
> > world
> > >> is literally made into an stop motion animated “cartoon”. One could
> talk
> > >> about the Quays work and time – both in terms of period and affect;
> > rhythm
> > >> and texture of their worlds (*In Absentia*, the film they made with
> > >> Stockhausen, is in some ways about light/time, metaphorically written
> all
> > at
> > >> once over and over (the character n the film) hence no time. Endless
> > time.
> > >> Speed of light…  .) But I do not know what people have seen. I am more
> > >> interested in hearing you all discuss temporality and animation
> > “today”—both
> > >> theoretically and examples. These discussions are so energetic. They
> > amaze
> > >> me.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks, Thyrza
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > Christopher Sullivan
> > > Dept. of Film/Video/New Media
> > > School of the Art Institute of Chicago
> > > 112 so michigan
> > > Chicago Ill 60603
> > > csulli at saic.edu
> > > 312-345-3802
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > empyre forum
> > > empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> > > http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > empyre forum
> > empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> > http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> >
>
>
> Christopher Sullivan
> Dept. of Film/Video/New Media
> School of the Art Institute of Chicago
> 112 so michigan
> Chicago Ill 60603
> csulli at saic.edu
> 312-345-3802
> _______________________________________________
> empyre forum
> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
>
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