[-empyre-] animation and short term memory (was, a long time ago: interpreting datasets, etc)

Tue Mar 2 15:39:04 EST 2010

Hi Simon, perhaps there are degrees of narrative linearity, for me there  does
not have to be a literal audience manipulation, or chance operation to create
experiments in narrative, it is done in literature all the time.
taking a film like Jim Duesings Tender bodies,  or Nancy Andrews strange work,
or lewis klahr, there is I think very interesting stuff going on. 
did you like the work you saw? that is all that maters for me. Chris

Quoting Simon Biggs <s.biggs at eca.ac.uk>:

> I think I am little confused about what non-linear means in this context. I
> assume it to mean a time based artefact that can exist as a number of
> distinct material timelines. That is, the timeline bifurcates in various
> ways that allow the viewer to experience distinctly different aspects of the
> work. In my experience there are only two ways to do this. One is to use a
> hypermedia approach, such as the World Wide Web is predicated upon, which
> allows you to select from multiple routes through a number of possibilities.
> The other is to use generative techniques, where the viewer¹s interaction
> with the artefact causes it to re-author itself in real-time, the outcome
> most likely being a novel instance of the work that only that viewer will
> ever experience (this approach is more common in simulation based computer
> games). I have googled some of the names Chris suggested but so far as I
> could see they are making traditional linear animations. Am I missing
> something?
> 
> Best
> 
> Simon
> 
> 
> Simon Biggs
> 
> s.biggs at eca.ac.uk  simon at littlepig.org.uk  Skype: simonbiggsuk
> http://www.littlepig.org.uk/
> Research Professor  edinburgh college of art  http://www.eca.ac.uk/
> Creative Interdisciplinary Research into CoLlaborative Environments
> http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/
> Electronic Literature as a Model of Creativity and Innovation in Practice
> http://www.elmcip.net/
> 
> 
> 
> From: Eileen Reynolds <eyelene01 at hotmail.com>
> Reply-To: soft_skinned_space <empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:02:57 -0700
> To: <empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>, <futurenatural at blueyonder.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [-empyre-] animation and short term memory (was, a long time
> ago: interpreting datasets, etc)
> 
> Hi Chris. Thanks for the list of names.  I had not heard of some who I
> really ought to have known. Rose bond. wonderful.  Intra Muros is superb. I
> recently attended the introduction master class given by Patrick Smith in
> Singapore and was impressed by Drink and Puppet. The transformation is quite
> nice. True, there is an endless supply of animated non-linear shorts out
> there. 
> 
> 
> Lately I've been absorbed in pre cinema tech and toys and also pixilation.
> In my opinion the visual power of such simple in camera effects can¹t be
> beat.  Yay  Melies.  Yeah  and the tilt shift time lapse you mentioned the
> other day was another fine example of using limited technology, an older
> technique, but bringing it one step further into video and creating
> something fresh. Also I find that the use of  physical space in the process
> of animation is becoming more extravagant... as in stop motion in the urban
> space (Muto by Blu), or staging larger  productions like that sony bravia
> clay bunny commercial or more involved pixilations like the video Oren Lavie
> - Her Morning Elegance.  The physical  act of creation comes to the
> forefront and in a way makes the animated short that much more impressive.
> Perhaps the use of space is a reaction against the world of CG animation,
> which can be quite sedentary. Or perhaps it's just fun.  Some random and
> unrelated films/people I appreciate right now are Kihachiro Kawamoto,  Javan
> Ivey and his stratastencils, and Separation by Robert Morgan.  Have a good
> day. Cheers. Eileen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:05:06 -0600
> > From: csulli at saic.edu
> > To: empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au; futurenatural at blueyonder.co.uk
> > CC: empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> > Subject: Re: [-empyre-] animation and short term memory (was, a long time
> ago:
> interpreting datasets, etc)
> > 
> > Hi Richard, there are plenty of non-linear narrative animations, not too
> many
> > feature ones, but then there are not all that many feature length
> animations.
> > here are a few animators, off the top of my head, and the Quay's as well;
> janie
> > Gieser. Lewis Klahr, Nancu Andrews, me Chris Sullivan, Jim Trainor, Simon
> > Pummel, Amy Kravitze, Karen Yasinsky, Lilli Carre, Patrick Smith, Don
> > Hertzfeld, Rose Bond, Joshua Mosely, Jim Duesing, Pritt Parn, Brent Green,
> > Piotr Dumala, and check out the nice work funded by the organization,
> Animate
> > Projects, great british wonders. have a good night. Chris.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Quoting Richard Wright <futurenatural at blueyonder.co.uk>:
> > 
> > > I always liked the quality in the Quay films where time seems to lose
> > > all its reference points. Those shots of dust settling or shadows
> > > dancing where you are no longer sure whether you are watching in
> > > "realtime" or over the course of hundreds of years.
> > > 
> > > This also made me wonder why certain kinds of narrative and time are
> > > almost never used in animation. For instance, why are there no non-
> > > linear narrative animations? They are not that uncommon in live
> > > action films - I am thinking of Memento that goes backwards in story
> > > time (with one b/w stream going forwards), Amores Perros that jumps
> > > repeatedly backwards and forwards, The Hours with its parallel
> > > storylines running in different historical times periods. The only
> > > example of an animated film that has anything like these kinds of
> > > narrative structure is Waltz with Bashir with its persistent
> > > flashbacks. And that was made by a live action director.
> > > 
> > > I wonder if this has something to do with the way that animators
> > > work, concentrating as they do on building up a sequence of actions
> > > bit by bit, are they generally less directed towards the larger
> > > narrative structures of time? By focusing on the duration of the
> > > immediate event, is it as though they assume a sort of "short term
> > > memory"?
> > > 
> > > Richard
> > > 
> > > On 25 Feb 2010, at 03:34, T Goodeve wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Hello everyone:
> > > >
> > > > Sorry I¹ve been so lax as a discussant-generator but here I am with
> > > > some thoughts and reflections. If it¹s okay just an aside first:
> > > > off the top of my fingertips<many of you make stuff you love and
> > > > live for, also write about with great passion, and the animated
> > > > worldscape is still and ever will be one of magic and wonder I hope
> > > > (you have the romantic here), i.e., endless visual and aural
> > > > reimagings via its ability, or definition, whether anlogue or
> > > > digital, to do anything and everything within and beyond the
> > > > spacetime continuum. But sometimes I miss the basic humor, wonder,
> > > > and sheer ³wow² of the simplicity of animation. I mentioned in a
> > > > post. The blank page and the dot. We lose track, myself included,
> > > > analyzing the life out of things sometimes and to do this with
> > > > animation seems particularly perverse. I realize I set myself up
> > > > for a bit of ridicule here but alas, someone has to speak up for
> > > > the puppet doll in Street of Crocodiles who cradles the bare light
> > > > bulb baby in its arm and brings it back to life with light, or the
> > > > frayed and earnest bunny who does his best to keep up with the
> > > > spinning demented ping pong balls and a pair of disembodied knee
> > > > socks and slippers moving up and down on tip toes in the Quays ³Are
> > > > We Still Married² <up and down, up and down. I think Christopher
> > > > Sullivan was trying to get at this but not everyone is out to do
> > > > what he does nor interested in the way I am or the Quays or for
> > > > that matter, those who use it for visualization, but depending on
> > > > why you do what you do we are here to discuss the breakthrough
> > > > insights of theory and technology and animation, but it¹s just
> > > > sometimes I¹ve felt we¹ve let the technology get away with doing
> > > > too much of the talking, not that it doesn¹t have a lot to say.
> > > >
> > > > But a more hardy, if overly general, topic is temporality and time,
> > > > now-time vs say the way cinema¹s capturing, sculpting, control of
> > > > time was such a huge part of its magic. Siegfried Kracauer describe
> > > > in an essay how powerful just ³having² the wind in the trees <a
> > > > moment< captured on film is for him. How different from one of my
> > > > students when I showed some film, perhaps Tarkovsky,² Why does he
> > > > keep leaving the camera on the trees so long?² Students of cinema
> > > > are different. We know this: ADD and short digitized attention
> > > > spans. But how do you see this in your worlds of animation either
> > > > in terms of resistance or something emerging that is part of this.
> > > > One thing I thought was very relevant was the post of the shift
> > > > tilt which is amazing and disturbing in this respect. Lots to say
> > > > about it: not only the time lapse but the way the world is
> > > > miniaturized. Here the real profilmic world is literally made into
> > > > an stop motion animated ³cartoon². One could talk about the Quays
> > > > work and time  both in terms of period and affect; rhythm and
> > > > texture of their worlds (In Absentia, the film they made with
> > > > Stockhausen, is in some ways about light/time, metaphorically
> > > > written all at once over and over (the character n the film) hence
> > > > no time. Endless time. Speed of lightS  .) But I do not know what
> > > > people have seen. I am more interested in hearing you all discuss
> > > > temporality and animation ³today²<both theoretically and examples.
> > > > These discussions are so energetic. They amaze me.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Thyrza
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 12:39 AM, christopher sullivan
> > > > <csulli at saic.edu> wrote:
> > > > Hi Richard, I am the guy that wants animations about love, hate,
> > > > birth, sex, and
> > > > death.(not necessarily in that order)
> > > > your rules of engagement leave me a little cold. why would this be
> > > > a goal?
> > > >
> > > > "greatest possible distance between
> > > >  human senses and computer code that is achievable through the
> > > >  simplest material means"
> > > >
> > > > what part of the human condition would make this a mandate?
> > > > why would this be effective, or rather effective at doing what?
> > > > I know I am being a little aggressive here, but this is coming from
> > > > someone who does not think Data means anything, nor does emulsion.
> > > >
> > > > chris.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > Christopher Sullivan
> > Dept. of Film/Video/New Media
> > School of the Art Institute of Chicago
> > 112 so michigan
> > Chicago Ill 60603
> > csulli at saic.edu
> > 312-345-3802
> > _______________________________________________
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> > empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> > http://www.subtle.net/empyre
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Christopher Sullivan
Dept. of Film/Video/New Media
School of the Art Institute of Chicago
112 so michigan
Chicago Ill 60603
csulli at saic.edu
312-345-3802