[-empyre-] animation and gender

christopher sullivan csulli at saic.edu
Tue Mar 2 16:13:13 EST 2010 

oops that's Miwa Matrayek

Quoting christopher sullivan <csulli at saic.edu>:

> another name for very strange new media stuff is Miwa Matrakek 
> very poppy, but quite interesting tuff. Chris
> 
> 
> Quoting Eric Patrick <ericp at northwestern.edu>:
> 
> > Joanne Gratz, Joanna Priestly, Caroline Leaf, etc....
> > 
> > I actually think the opposite of what Renate says below...  at least in
> > terms of independent animation.  It always seemed to me that women were
> > dominating independent work with innovation of both form and content
> > (Caroline Leaf and Joan Gratz in the former, Joanna Priestly and Susan
> Pitt
> > in the later).
> > 
> > There's no question that there is a lack of presence in television, film
> and
> > gaming of women animators (though there's also a lack of general diversity
> > in these areas), with the exception of children's television which has
> many
> > great people doing things (Jen Oxley, Linda Simensky, and Tracy
> > Paige-Johnson to name a few).
> > 
> > Eric
> > 
> > 
> > On 3/1/10 9:59 AM, "christopher sullivan" <csulli at saic.edu> wrote:
> > 
> > > a couple more, Ruth Lingford, Wendy Tilby, Martha Colborn. Kim Colmer,
> > Ariana
> > > Gerstine, Orla McHardy, Suzzy templeton, Laura Heit. Lisa Barcy, Susan
> > Pit,
> > > Maureen Selwood, Christien Roche. got to go. Chris
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Quoting Renate Ferro <rtf9 at cornell.edu>:
> > > 
> > >> Dear all,
> > >> 
> > >> Chris thanks for the list of animators below.  There is something that
> I
> > >> have been very curious about since we began this whole discussion now
> > >> about a month ago.  I was on a site (and I'm not sure which one it was)
> > >> that was discussing the lack of female animators in the field.  The
> > >> distinction was that many female animators who are working tend to do
> > more
> > >> documentary, self help animations.  Their observation was that most
> women
> > >> artists instead tended to be drawn towards manipulated, experimental
> > >> cinema and video and not straight animation. (Perhaps we need to extend
> > >> the whole notion of animation via the fuzziness that Suzanne alluded to
> > >> early on!) Additionally, Mary Flanagan was here at Cornell a few weeks
> > ago
> > >> and in a public lecture commented on the overwhelming lack of female
> > >> gamers in the field as well.
> > >> 
> > >> Our next empyre discussion will not be beginning until March 8th so for
> > >> the next couple of days or so I'm hoping that we can all talk openly
> > about
> > >>  this topic.  I"m fascinated and perhaps misinformed I hope.  Maybe the
> > >> tides are turning and many young female artists will be drawn into the
> > new
> > >> technologies of animation.
> > >> 
> > >> When I first started looking for guests for this topic it was difficult
> > to
> > >> find any women at all to participate but I'm so very happy that we
> > finally
> > >> were able to get a great and yes diverse mix as Chris pointed out in
> one
> > >> of his last posts. Can you all send me your favorite female
> animators???
> > >> 
> > >> Renate
> > >> 
> > >> PS.  We will continue on for the next couple of days on animation and
> > then
> > >> open things up for a few days of open conversation.
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >>> Hi Richard, there are plenty of non-linear narrative animations, not
> too
> > >>> many
> > >>> feature ones, but then there are not all that many feature length
> > >>> animations.
> > >>> here are a few animators, off the top of my head, and the Quay's as
> > well;
> > >>> janie
> > >>> Gieser. Lewis Klahr, Nancu Andrews, me Chris Sullivan, Jim Trainor,
> > Simon
> > >>> Pummel, Amy Kravitze, Karen Yasinsky, Lilli Carre, Patrick Smith, Don
> > >>> Hertzfeld, Rose Bond, Joshua Mosely, Jim Duesing, Pritt Parn, Brent
> > Green,
> > >>> Piotr Dumala, and check out the nice work funded by the organization,
> > >>> Animate
> > >>> Projects, great british wonders. have a good night. Chris.
> > >>> 
> > >>> 
> > >>> 
> > >>> Quoting Richard Wright <futurenatural at blueyonder.co.uk>:
> > >>> 
> > >>>> I always liked the quality in the Quay films where time seems to lose
> > >>>> all its reference points. Those shots of dust settling or shadows
> > >>>> dancing where you are no longer sure whether you are watching in
> > >>>> "realtime" or over the course of hundreds of years.
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> This also made me wonder why certain kinds of narrative and time are
> > >>>> almost never used in animation. For instance, why are there no non-
> > >>>> linear narrative animations? They are not that uncommon in live
> > >>>> action films - I am thinking of Memento that goes backwards in story
> > >>>> time (with one b/w stream going forwards), Amores Perros that jumps
> > >>>> repeatedly backwards and forwards, The Hours with its parallel
> > >>>> storylines running in different historical times periods. The only
> > >>>> example of an animated film that has anything like these kinds of
> > >>>> narrative structure is Waltz with Bashir with its persistent
> > >>>> flashbacks. And that was made by a live action director.
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> I wonder if this has something to do with the way that animators
> > >>>> work, concentrating as they do on building up a sequence of actions
> > >>>> bit by bit, are they generally less directed towards the larger
> > >>>> narrative structures of time? By focusing on the duration of the
> > >>>> immediate event, is it as though they assume a sort of "short term
> > >>>> memory"?
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> Richard
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> On 25 Feb 2010, at 03:34, T Goodeve wrote:
> > >>>> 
> > >>>>> Hello everyone:
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> Sorry I¹ve been so lax as a discussant-generator but here I am with
> > >>>>> some thoughts and reflections. If it¹s okay just an aside first:
> > >>>>> off the top of my fingertips‹many of you make stuff you love and
> > >>>>> live for, also write about with great passion, and the animated
> > >>>>> worldscape is still and ever will be one of magic and wonder I hope
> > >>>>> (you have the romantic here), i.e., endless visual and aural
> > >>>>> reimagings via its ability, or definition, whether anlogue or
> > >>>>> digital, to do anything and everything within and beyond the
> > >>>>> spacetime continuum. But sometimes I miss the basic humor, wonder,
> > >>>>> and sheer ³wow² of the simplicity of animation. I mentioned in a
> > >>>>> post. The blank page and the dot. We lose track, myself included,
> > >>>>> analyzing the life out of things sometimes and to do this with
> > >>>>> animation seems particularly perverse. I realize I set myself up
> > >>>>> for a bit of ridicule here but alas, someone has to speak up for
> > >>>>> the puppet doll in Street of Crocodiles who cradles the bare light
> > >>>>> bulb baby in its arm and brings it back to life with light, or the
> > >>>>> frayed and earnest bunny who does his best to keep up with the
> > >>>>> spinning demented ping pong balls and a pair of disembodied knee
> > >>>>> socks and slippers moving up and down on tip toes in the Quays ³Are
> > >>>>> We Still Married² ‹up and down, up and down. I think Christopher
> > >>>>> Sullivan was trying to get at this but not everyone is out to do
> > >>>>> what he does nor interested in the way I am or the Quays or for
> > >>>>> that matter, those who use it for visualization, but depending on
> > >>>>> why you do what you do we are here to discuss the breakthrough
> > >>>>> insights of theory and technology and animation, but it¹s just
> > >>>>> sometimes I¹ve felt we¹ve let the technology get away with doing
> > >>>>> too much of the talking, not that it doesn¹t have a lot to say.
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> But a more hardy, if overly general, topic is temporality and time,
> > >>>>> now-time vs say the way cinema¹s capturing, sculpting, control of
> > >>>>> time was such a huge part of its magic. Siegfried Kracauer describe
> > >>>>> in an essay how powerful just ³having² the wind in the trees ‹a
> > >>>>> moment‹ captured on film is for him. How different from one of my
> > >>>>> students when I showed some film, perhaps Tarkovsky,² Why does he
> > >>>>> keep leaving the camera on the trees so long?² Students of cinema
> > >>>>> are different. We know this: ADD and short digitized attention
> > >>>>> spans. But how do you see this in your worlds of animation either
> > >>>>> in terms of resistance or something emerging that is part of this.
> > >>>>> One thing I thought was very relevant was the post of the shift
> > >>>>> tilt which is amazing and disturbing in this respect. Lots to say
> > >>>>> about it: not only the time lapse but the way the world is
> > >>>>> miniaturized. Here the real profilmic world is literally made into
> > >>>>> an stop motion animated ³cartoon². One could talk about the Quays
> > >>>>> work and time ­ both in terms of period and affect; rhythm and
> > >>>>> texture of their worlds (In Absentia, the film they made with
> > >>>>> Stockhausen, is in some ways about light/time, metaphorically
> > >>>>> written all at once over and over (the character n the film) hence
> > >>>>> no time. Endless time. Speed of lightŠ  .) But I do not know what
> > >>>>> people have seen. I am more interested in hearing you all discuss
> > >>>>> temporality and animation ³today²‹both theoretically and examples.
> > >>>>> These discussions are so energetic. They amaze me.
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> Thanks, Thyrza
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 12:39 AM, christopher sullivan
> > >>>>> <csulli at saic.edu> wrote:
> > >>>>> Hi Richard, I am the guy that wants animations about love, hate,
> > >>>>> birth, sex, and
> > >>>>> death.(not necessarily in that order)
> > >>>>> your rules of engagement leave me a little cold. why would this be
> > >>>>> a goal?
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> "greatest possible distance between
> > >>>>>  human senses and computer code that is achievable through the
> > >>>>>  simplest material means"
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> what part of the human condition would make this a mandate?
> > >>>>> why would this be effective, or rather effective at doing what?
> > >>>>> I know I am being a little aggressive here, but this is coming from
> > >>>>> someone who does not think Data means anything, nor does emulsion.
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> chris.
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> 
> > >>> 
> > >>> 
> > >>> Christopher Sullivan
> > >>> Dept. of Film/Video/New Media
> > >>> School of the Art Institute of Chicago
> > >>> 112 so michigan
> > >>> Chicago Ill 60603
> > >>> csulli at saic.edu
> > >>> 312-345-3802
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> empyre forum
> > >>> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> > >>> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> > >>> 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> Renate Ferro
> > >> Visiting Assistant Professor
> > >> Department of Art
> > >> Cornell University, Tjaden Hall
> > >> Ithaca, NY  14853
> > >> 
> > >> Email:   <rtf9 at cornell.edu>
> > >> Website:  http://www.renateferro.net
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> Co-moderator of _empyre soft skinned space
> > >> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empyre
> > >> 
> > >> Art Editor, diacritics
> > >> http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/dia/
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> empyre forum
> > >> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> > >> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> > >> 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Christopher Sullivan
> > > Dept. of Film/Video/New Media
> > > School of the Art Institute of Chicago
> > > 112 so michigan
> > > Chicago Ill 60603
> > > csulli at saic.edu
> > > 312-345-3802
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > empyre forum
> > > empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> > > http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > empyre forum
> > empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> > http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> > 
> 
> 
> Christopher Sullivan
> Dept. of Film/Video/New Media
> School of the Art Institute of Chicago
> 112 so michigan
> Chicago Ill 60603
> csulli at saic.edu
> 312-345-3802
> _______________________________________________
> empyre forum
> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> 


Christopher Sullivan
Dept. of Film/Video/New Media
School of the Art Institute of Chicago
112 so michigan
Chicago Ill 60603
csulli at saic.edu
312-345-3802

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