[-empyre-] animation and gender

Wed Mar 3 00:39:11 EST 2010

I also disagree that independent women animators have a tendency towards self-help pieces. This just sounds awful to me somehow. The work is incredibly varied, just like the field of animation itself!

________________________________
From: Eric Patrick <ericp at northwestern.edu>
To: soft_skinned_space <empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>; Renate Ferro <rtf9 at cornell.edu>
Cc: soft_skinned_space <empyre at gamera.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 9:45:23 PM
Subject: Re: [-empyre-] animation and gender

Joanne Gratz, Joanna Priestly, Caroline Leaf, etc....

I actually think the opposite of what Renate says below...  at least in
terms of independent animation.  It always seemed to me that women were
dominating independent work with innovation of both form and content
(Caroline Leaf and Joan Gratz in the former, Joanna Priestly and Susan Pitt
in the later).

There's no question that there is a lack of presence in television, film and
gaming of women animators (though there's also a lack of general diversity
in these areas), with the exception of children's television which has many
great people doing things (Jen Oxley, Linda Simensky, and Tracy
Paige-Johnson to name a few).

Eric

On 3/1/10 9:59 AM, "christopher sullivan" <csulli at saic.edu> wrote:

> a couple more, Ruth Lingford, Wendy Tilby, Martha Colborn. Kim Colmer, Ariana
> Gerstine, Orla McHardy, Suzzy templeton, Laura Heit. Lisa Barcy, Susan Pit,
> Maureen Selwood, Christien Roche. got to go. Chris
> 
> 
> Quoting Renate Ferro <rtf9 at cornell.edu>:
> 
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> Chris thanks for the list of animators below.  There is something that I
>> have been very curious about since we began this whole discussion now
>> about a month ago.  I was on a site (and I'm not sure which one it was)
>> that was discussing the lack of female animators in the field.  The
>> distinction was that many female animators who are working tend to do more
>> documentary, self help animations.  Their observation was that most women
>> artists instead tended to be drawn towards manipulated, experimental
>> cinema and video and not straight animation. (Perhaps we need to extend
>> the whole notion of animation via the fuzziness that Suzanne alluded to
>> early on!) Additionally, Mary Flanagan was here at Cornell a few weeks ago
>> and in a public lecture commented on the overwhelming lack of female
>> gamers in the field as well.
>> 
>> Our next empyre discussion will not be beginning until March 8th so for
>> the next couple of days or so I'm hoping that we can all talk openly about
>>  this topic.  I"m fascinated and perhaps misinformed I hope.  Maybe the
>> tides are turning and many young female artists will be drawn into the new
>> technologies of animation.
>> 
>> When I first started looking for guests for this topic it was difficult to
>> find any women at all to participate but I'm so very happy that we finally
>> were able to get a great and yes diverse mix as Chris pointed out in one
>> of his last posts. Can you all send me your favorite female animators???
>> 
>> Renate
>> 
>> PS.  We will continue on for the next couple of days on animation and then
>> open things up for a few days of open conversation.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Hi Richard, there are plenty of non-linear narrative animations, not too
>>> many
>>> feature ones, but then there are not all that many feature length
>>> animations.
>>> here are a few animators, off the top of my head, and the Quay's as well;
>>> janie
>>> Gieser. Lewis Klahr, Nancu Andrews, me Chris Sullivan, Jim Trainor, Simon
>>> Pummel, Amy Kravitze, Karen Yasinsky, Lilli Carre, Patrick Smith, Don
>>> Hertzfeld, Rose Bond, Joshua Mosely, Jim Duesing, Pritt Parn, Brent Green,
>>> Piotr Dumala, and check out the nice work funded by the organization,
>>> Animate
>>> Projects, great british wonders. have a good night. Chris.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Quoting Richard Wright <futurenatural at blueyonder.co.uk>:
>>> 
>>>> I always liked the quality in the Quay films where time seems to lose
>>>> all its reference points. Those shots of dust settling or shadows
>>>> dancing where you are no longer sure whether you are watching in
>>>> "realtime" or over the course of hundreds of years.
>>>> 
>>>> This also made me wonder why certain kinds of narrative and time are
>>>> almost never used in animation. For instance, why are there no non-
>>>> linear narrative animations? They are not that uncommon in live
>>>> action films - I am thinking of Memento that goes backwards in story
>>>> time (with one b/w stream going forwards), Amores Perros that jumps
>>>> repeatedly backwards and forwards, The Hours with its parallel
>>>> storylines running in different historical times periods. The only
>>>> example of an animated film that has anything like these kinds of
>>>> narrative structure is Waltz with Bashir with its persistent
>>>> flashbacks. And that was made by a live action director.
>>>> 
>>>> I wonder if this has something to do with the way that animators
>>>> work, concentrating as they do on building up a sequence of actions
>>>> bit by bit, are they generally less directed towards the larger
>>>> narrative structures of time? By focusing on the duration of the
>>>> immediate event, is it as though they assume a sort of "short term
>>>> memory"?
>>>> 
>>>> Richard
>>>> 
>>>> On 25 Feb 2010, at 03:34, T Goodeve wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hello everyone:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sorry I¹ve been so lax as a discussant-generator but here I am with
>>>>> some thoughts and reflections. If it¹s okay just an aside first:
>>>>> off the top of my fingertips‹many of you make stuff you love and
>>>>> live for, also write about with great passion, and the animated
>>>>> worldscape is still and ever will be one of magic and wonder I hope
>>>>> (you have the romantic here), i.e., endless visual and aural
>>>>> reimagings via its ability, or definition, whether anlogue or
>>>>> digital, to do anything and everything within and beyond the
>>>>> spacetime continuum. But sometimes I miss the basic humor, wonder,
>>>>> and sheer ³wow² of the simplicity of animation. I mentioned in a
>>>>> post. The blank page and the dot. We lose track, myself included,
>>>>> analyzing the life out of things sometimes and to do this with
>>>>> animation seems particularly perverse. I realize I set myself up
>>>>> for a bit of ridicule here but alas, someone has to speak up for
>>>>> the puppet doll in Street of Crocodiles who cradles the bare light
>>>>> bulb baby in its arm and brings it back to life with light, or the
>>>>> frayed and earnest bunny who does his best to keep up with the
>>>>> spinning demented ping pong balls and a pair of disembodied knee
>>>>> socks and slippers moving up and down on tip toes in the Quays ³Are
>>>>> We Still Married² ‹up and down, up and down. I think Christopher
>>>>> Sullivan was trying to get at this but not everyone is out to do
>>>>> what he does nor interested in the way I am or the Quays or for
>>>>> that matter, those who use it for visualization, but depending on
>>>>> why you do what you do we are here to discuss the breakthrough
>>>>> insights of theory and technology and animation, but it¹s just
>>>>> sometimes I¹ve felt we¹ve let the technology get away with doing
>>>>> too much of the talking, not that it doesn¹t have a lot to say.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But a more hardy, if overly general, topic is temporality and time,
>>>>> now-time vs say the way cinema¹s capturing, sculpting, control of
>>>>> time was such a huge part of its magic. Siegfried Kracauer describe
>>>>> in an essay how powerful just ³having² the wind in the trees ‹a
>>>>> moment‹ captured on film is for him. How different from one of my
>>>>> students when I showed some film, perhaps Tarkovsky,² Why does he
>>>>> keep leaving the camera on the trees so long?² Students of cinema
>>>>> are different. We know this: ADD and short digitized attention
>>>>> spans. But how do you see this in your worlds of animation either
>>>>> in terms of resistance or something emerging that is part of this.
>>>>> One thing I thought was very relevant was the post of the shift
>>>>> tilt which is amazing and disturbing in this respect. Lots to say
>>>>> about it: not only the time lapse but the way the world is
>>>>> miniaturized. Here the real profilmic world is literally made into
>>>>> an stop motion animated ³cartoon². One could talk about the Quays
>>>>> work and time  both in terms of period and affect; rhythm and
>>>>> texture of their worlds (In Absentia, the film they made with
>>>>> Stockhausen, is in some ways about light/time, metaphorically
>>>>> written all at once over and over (the character n the film) hence
>>>>> no time. Endless time. Speed of lightŠ  .) But I do not know what
>>>>> people have seen. I am more interested in hearing you all discuss
>>>>> temporality and animation ³today²‹both theoretically and examples.
>>>>> These discussions are so energetic. They amaze me.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks, Thyrza
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 12:39 AM, christopher sullivan
>>>>> <csulli at saic.edu> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Richard, I am the guy that wants animations about love, hate,
>>>>> birth, sex, and
>>>>> death.(not necessarily in that order)
>>>>> your rules of engagement leave me a little cold. why would this be
>>>>> a goal?
>>>>> 
>>>>> "greatest possible distance between
>>>>>  human senses and computer code that is achievable through the
>>>>>  simplest material means"
>>>>> 
>>>>> what part of the human condition would make this a mandate?
>>>>> why would this be effective, or rather effective at doing what?
>>>>> I know I am being a little aggressive here, but this is coming from
>>>>> someone who does not think Data means anything, nor does emulsion.
>>>>> 
>>>>> chris.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Christopher Sullivan
>>> Dept. of Film/Video/New Media
>>> School of the Art Institute of Chicago
>>> 112 so michigan
>>> Chicago Ill 60603
>>> csulli at saic.edu
>>> 312-345-3802
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> empyre forum
>>> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
>>> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Renate Ferro
>> Visiting Assistant Professor
>> Department of Art
>> Cornell University, Tjaden Hall
>> Ithaca, NY  14853
>> 
>> Email:   <rtf9 at cornell.edu>
>> Website:  http://www.renateferro.net
>> 
>> 
>> Co-moderator of _empyre soft skinned space
>> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empyre
>> 
>> Art Editor, diacritics
>> http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/dia/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> empyre forum
>> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
>> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
>> 
> 
> 
> Christopher Sullivan
> Dept. of Film/Video/New Media
> School of the Art Institute of Chicago
> 112 so michigan
> Chicago Ill 60603
> csulli at saic.edu
> 312-345-3802
> _______________________________________________
> empyre forum
> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> http://www.subtle.net/empyre

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