[-empyre-] public lament and gardening

Maria Damon damon001 at umn.edu
Fri Oct 5 00:31:03 EST 2012 

Is there then (I'm sort of assuming the answer is yes, but asking anyway 
in order to make it part of the fabric of the conversation) a way in 
which lamentation is also critique as well as community 
self-constitution, as in Lamentations?

On 10/3/12 10:35 PM, Monika Weiss wrote:
> Thank you Ana for those words. I would love to know more about the 
> Antigona Oriental.
>
> p.s.
> Yes, we have lived through torture since time immemorial but with the 
> Declaration of Human Rights and other international institutions, we 
> had hopes for progress in that area. So, I don't subscribe to the idea 
> that what was there once, is therefore explained today..... the 
> problem with the law and its ability to constitute law, and therefore, 
> to go outside of itself, such as was the case with the concentration 
> camps, and such as is the case today thanks to patriot act etc. 
> otherwise under the umbrella of emergency. But there is a deeper 
> underlying notion of "right" that certain powers have, like during 
> Feudalism, the self-assigned right to inflict "law" upon others, 
> including pain and torture, for the sake of "higher goals" or "security".
>
>
> On Oct 3, 2012, at 6:35 PM, Ana Valdés wrote:
>
>> HI Monika I checked the links you post and they were stunning
>> beautiful, as the cry of the mourners in the Greek tragedies. By the
>> way a group of Uruguayan former political prisoners, many of them my
>> former comrades, put together a beatiful piece called Antigona
>> Oriental. It was a contrast between their texts and the text of the
>> Greek tragedy and it worked perfect. The old crimes and the new
>> shapes, but as Allan said probably Humanity has lived with torture and
>> mayhem since Man (and Woman) were born.
>> I think we deal different with pain and each one of us choose it's own
>> strategy and have his own array of tools to do that.
>> For me is writing for others is painting, for others dancing, etc.
>> Ana
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:17 PM, Monika Weiss 
>> <gniewna at monika-weiss.com <mailto:gniewna at monika-weiss.com>> wrote:
>>> Hi Ana,
>>> I had the same feeling and wrote about it to Alan....
>>> By the way, can't wait to hear more from you as part of this discussion.
>>> Monika
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Oct 3, 2012, at 2:13 PM, Ana Valdés <agora158 at gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:agora158 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Johannes, as I wrote in my answer to Alan, I am sad I don't have
>>>> a clue how to avoid these ads in my text, I guess this is the prize to
>>>> pay for a free digital hosting :(
>>>> I am now poor as a mouse :) moved back from the First World with all
>>>> it's glamour to the non glamorous and poor Third World. It means I
>>>> can't afford to pay any fee for a more fancy add free hosting :(
>>>> But as I said Amazon still sell back copies of the book where the text
>>>> is included, the Garden of the Alphabet, published by Serpent's Tail
>>>> in London and New York.
>>>> Best regards to all of you
>>>> Ana
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 3:39 PM, Johannes Birringer
>>>> <Johannes.Birringer at brunel.ac.uk 
>>>> <mailto:Johannes.Birringer at brunel.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>>>> Dear all
>>>>>
>>>>> thank you Monika for your text/introduction to your understanding 
>>>>> of the system of lament, and "public lament as performative and 
>>>>> political act in public domain"
>>>>> -- this is richly evocative and will have to go back to your 
>>>>> writing after looking at some of your work (the slides, and the 
>>>>> films or film excerpts you include on
>>>>> http://www.streamingmuseum.org/content/monika-weiss/
>>>>> I am listening to the sound now, of two of your videos.  I was 
>>>>> struck, entering the site, to also find your reference to Cage's 
>>>>> silence.
>>>>> on first viewing/listening, your visual-sonic work has quite a 
>>>>> mesmerizing quality.  I am just responding now, without thinking, 
>>>>> to my listening, and
>>>>> also watching the face(s) of the women in your films. (this 
>>>>> listening is now private, at a screen, in the dark of my room). so 
>>>>> no public lament this.
>>>>> But you stage these works in public galleries or spaces, and they 
>>>>> are visited by the "public". how then does such work function in 
>>>>> an art context?
>>>>> can it become a ritualizing space?
>>>>>
>>>>> but i shall look forward to reading more concisely (see below) 
>>>>> your position, also in regard to the questions already brought up 
>>>>> by Alan, when in his last post he  speaks of
>>>>> the "overwhelming suffering of the world," stating that he does 
>>>>> "not know how to accommodate all of this".  This followed the 
>>>>> conversation about
>>>>> pain, torture, memory begun by Ana.
>>>>>
>>>>> This accommodation will concern us, in the coming days, i am sure.
>>>>>
>>>>> Monika, could you expand a little on your reference to Zygmunt 
>>>>> Baumann's idea of "gardening" .
>>>>> What idea is this?
>>>>>
>>>>> And Ana, I began to delve into your longer text on the migration 
>>>>> from torture.
>>>>> It is a very complex and fascinating text, and i agree with Alan 
>>>>> that the "clickable words" are a rather amazing intrusion function 
>>>>> of the website.
>>>>>
>>>>> I clicked "perfume"
>>>>>
>>>>>>> We did not find any results for perfume.
>>>>> Search tips:
>>>>>       Ensure words are spelled correctly.
>>>>>       Try rephrasing keywords or using synonyms.
>>>>>       Try less specific keywords.
>>>>> Make your queries as concise as possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> with regards
>>>>> Johannes Birringer
>>>>> dap-lab
>>>>>
>>>>> Monika schreibt:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting question below from Alan about the nature of video as 
>>>>> a catalyst for memory, pain and lament and later I would like to 
>>>>> expand that part of our discussion towards the performative and 
>>>>> the circular in terms of the relationships between cinematic 
>>>>> mirroring and lament as well as pain. Just briefly for now -- 
>>>>> about torture. I am more preoccupied with torture inflicted by 
>>>>> governments, institutions and systems that often hide their 
>>>>> violence -- as you know only recently in my city of origins, 
>>>>> Warsaw, a CIA compound was found in which "suspected terrorists" 
>>>>> were kept for a number of years and tortured by US forces, without 
>>>>> any real knowledge amongst the civil part of the Polish 
>>>>> government. There are thousands of examples of course. Massive, 
>>>>> systematic pain and torture systems, the ones that are 
>>>>> pre-designed by others, "enlightened", designed by those who are 
>>>>> in power or who represent structures of power and hegemony not 
>>>>> because of hate, anger or any other emotion but becau
>>>>> se of fulfilling some abstracted and pragmatic goal, akin to 
>>>>> Zygmunt Baumann's idea of "gardening" .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> empyre forum
>>>>> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au <mailto:empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
>>>>> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> http://writings-escrituras.tumblr.com/
>>>> http://maraya.tumblr.com/
>>>> http://www.twitter.com/caravia158
>>>> http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/
>>>> http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia
>>>> http://www.scoop.it/t/gender-issues/
>>>> http://www.scoop.it/t/literary-exiles/
>>>> http://www.scoop.it/t/museums-and-ethics/
>>>> http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0
>>>> http://www.scoop.it/t/postcolonial-mind/
>>>>
>>>> cell Sweden +4670-3213370
>>>> cell Uruguay +598-99470758
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth
>>>> with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you
>>>> will always long to return.
>>>> --- Leonardo da Vinci
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> empyre forum
>>>> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au <mailto:empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
>>>> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> empyre forum
>>> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au <mailto:empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
>>> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> http://writings-escrituras.tumblr.com/
>> http://maraya.tumblr.com/
>> http://www.twitter.com/caravia158
>> http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/
>> http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia
>> http://www.scoop.it/t/gender-issues/
>> http://www.scoop.it/t/literary-exiles/
>> http://www.scoop.it/t/museums-and-ethics/
>> http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0
>> http://www.scoop.it/t/postcolonial-mind/
>>
>> cell Sweden +4670-3213370
>> cell Uruguay +598-99470758
>>
>>
>> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth
>> with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you
>> will always long to return.
>> --- Leonardo da Vinci
>> _______________________________________________
>> empyre forum
>> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
>> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
>
> M o n i k a   W e i s s   S t u d i o
> 456 Broome Street, 4
> New York, NY 10013
> Phone: 212-226-6736
> Mobile: 646-660-2809
> www.monika-weiss.com <http://www.monika-weiss.com>
> gniewna at monika-weiss.com <mailto:gniewna at monika-weiss.com>
>
> M o n i k a   W e i s s
> Assistant Professor
> Graduate School of Art & Hybrid Media
> Sam Fox School of Design & Visual Arts
> Washington University in St. Louis
> Campus Box 1031
> One Brookings Drive
> St. Louis, MO 63130
> mweiss at samfox.wustl.edu <mailto:mweiss at samfox.wustl.edu>
> http://samfoxschool.wustl.edu/portfolios/faculty/monika_weiss
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> empyre forum
> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> http://www.subtle.net/empyre

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