[-empyre-] empyre Digest, Vol 132, Issue 3

Thu Dec 10 02:45:06 AEDT 2015

Hi Joonas, thank you for posting your documentary. The style of the
skateboard magazine in the clip is very reminiscent of the work done, with
typewriters, collages, etc, by the hips and beats in the East Village in
New York in the sixties and seventies. What is the most striking about the
interview with the editor is *their refusa*l to post any of the images on
line. That is truly an act of resistance--for me, the most radical thing
they are doing, more than the images themselves, except the one where the
mogazine will be published *on a skateboard*, instead of on-line. That is a
beautiful act.

Your clip focuses on exactly what I was talking about in my previous post.
The Peripheral Space Photography essay, which I wrote in the nineties
though publish in 2004, focuses very much on the *inefficiencies* of the
19th century camera lenses that made them unable to create "perfect" images
despite all their attempts to create a better, more efficient method. Their
imperfections were not willed by the photographer (that would be nostalgia,
sentimental); they were *inherent* in the limitations of the medium.

As your interviews in the clip suggests, there is a tendency in the retro
to express nostalgia-- like filming a skateboard moving through "old"
neighborhoods. That in my opinion is a trap.

For example, going back to analog images from digital the purpose should
not be to create images that basically remind us of the old; rather, as the
speaker at the end of your clip suggests, to use the old methods to disrupt
the new to create an empty space, a tabula rasa to explore anew.

That is only possible by exploring and understanding what the differences
between analog and digital images. What the analog image *gave up* to
become digital. What it has lost.

Ciao,
Murat

On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 3:42 AM, Joonas Rokka <joonas.rokka at gmail.com> wrote:

> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
> Hi Murat, good points you made on the increasingly limited attention we
> give to digital images (and to film) due to abundance of new images made
> available every moment. What I also see interesting in this regard is
> partial re-emergence or turn back to analog images. Both analog photography
> and filmmaking are getting more popular as a sort of counter-trend to
> digital mainstream. Polaroid is certainly back, and as a related trend
> vinyl sales are hitting records as we speak. I was actually quite
> fascinated by this when talking to a new generation of skateboarders who
> felt it did no longer make sense to make new youtube videos and turned to
> zine style paper-n-sissors magazines, typewriters, and VHS film instead as
> forms of expression and exploration. They found that such largely
> abandoned, outdated, and inefficient pre-digital media and objects offered
> them a 'new' space to be filled with meaning. I made a small film about
> this topic called "Follow Me on Dead Media" that may interest some of you,
> available here - https://vimeo.com/104001507
>
> /Joonas
>
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Murat Nemet-Nejat <muratnn at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>> Hi Kelly, no problem. I was just trying to expand the conversation.
>>
>> Murat
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Kelly Norris Martin <
>> kellynmartin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>>> Hi Murat, I agree that I was using the term "interaction" somewhat
>>> loosely and these are arguments I'm still thinking through. Yes, in
>>> selfies, one difference is that "viewer and the subject before the lens are
>>> the same." And of course, this insertion of the artist or photographer
>>> within a creative work is nothing new. I was just trying to point out that
>>> the interaction that the selfie provides actually puts the creator within
>>> the medium and that offers an additional element of agency. Interactions
>>> with written text, the interaction is more uniform and there can be a
>>> lengthier back-and-forth. There is a different type of interaction with
>>> visuals and physical objects that the selfie complicates. On the one hand
>>> visuals and material artifacts may appeal to additional cognitive
>>> possibilities, on the other hand, we are somewhat separated.
>>>
>>> Aaron Hess’ recent piece in the International Journal of Communication
>>> offers another alternative interpretation to the notion of a “culture
>>> obsessed with itself” stating that, “the selfie also invites a different
>>> consideration about the complex nature of networked society. At the moment
>>> of capture, a selfie connects disparate modes of existence into one simple
>>> act…It features the corporeal self, understood in relation to the
>>> surrounding physical space, filtered through the digital device, and
>>> destined for social networks. In other words, the selfie exists at the
>>> intersection of multiple assemblages (DeLanda, 2006; Deleuze & Guattari,
>>> 1987; Wise, 2005) that draw complex and often contradictory subjectivities
>>> together.”
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Murat Nemet-Nejat <muratnn at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>>>> "Photographs, like physical monuments, often don’t allow for real
>>>> interaction with the creator or viewer,..."
>>>>
>>>> Hi, Kelly,
>>>>
>>>> I don't think the above statement is correct. Photographs, most
>>>> particularly those taken before digital photography, i.e. those created
>>>> through camera obscura/analog means, involve a subtle dialogue between the
>>>> viewer and what is before the lens. The passage of time permeates the
>>>> viewing of such photographs. (I go into great detail on this process, if
>>>> anyone is interested, in the essay *The Peripheral Space of
>>>> Photography* (Green Integer, 2004). Besides their digital origins,
>>>> what is different about selfies is that the viewer and the subject before
>>>> the lens are the same. Nevertheless, the passing of time  separates these
>>>> two identities (the viewer and the subject), the viewer becoming altered by
>>>> time, *provided anybody takes time (more than one or two seconds) to
>>>> look at selfies or clicking a "like" mark*.
>>>>
>>>> Then there is the opposite impluse first expressed in Walter Benjamin's
>>>> essay "The Work of Art in an Age of Mechanical Reproduction": the impulse
>>>> photography creates in people to take (in digital parlance click) pictures.
>>>> From that point, people takes selfies robotically, because the means is
>>>> there, inherent in the opportunity. It means nothing more. Nobody looks at
>>>> them more than once because there are so many of them.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, that mechanical quality may make selfies commercially such a
>>>> fertile ground--self perpetuated logos.
>>>>
>>>> Just a few thoughts.
>>>>
>>>> Ciao,
>>>> Murat
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Kelly Norris Martin <
>>>> kellynmartin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>>>>> Hi everyone, And thank you Jonathan and Joonas for initiating such an
>>>>> interesting discussion. My name is Kelly Norris Martin and I am also at
>>>>> Rochester Institute of Technology. I’m looking forward to the Kern
>>>>> Conference in the spring and participating in this current discussion,
>>>>> although I've only just recently begun to consider the selfie and the
>>>>> history of self representation in relation to my work with problematic
>>>>> material monuments and how decision-making and discourse surrounding these
>>>>> monuments can be so complicated.
>>>>>
>>>>> The frustration largely emanates from publics with an opposing view
>>>>> than that of the ideology depicted or commemorated. This dissenting
>>>>> response is difficult to express in a satisfying way. People cannot really
>>>>> interact with a purely material object on the same level as face-to-face
>>>>> conversation or through written text and it ends up being a very one-way
>>>>> form of communication. Discussion about these monuments may happen online
>>>>> or in public address but they are removed from the material object.
>>>>>
>>>>> Like Jonathan, I’m very interested in how Murray contests the purely
>>>>> narcissistic motives of selfies. He argues  selfies illustrate consumer
>>>>> resistance and I argue that the selfie allows for a greater sense of
>>>>> engagement combining multiple modalities. This engagement is likely more
>>>>> complicated and provides new challenges as Joonas points out because it
>>>>> “entails a new language, aesthetic, and trajectory of communication.”
>>>>>
>>>>> Photographs, like physical monuments, often don’t allow for real
>>>>> interaction with the creator or viewer, but the selfie provides an
>>>>> opportunity for the creator (sometimes viewer) to enter the discussion, to
>>>>> showcase belonging and expression, within the same medium.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll stop here for now to try and keep this at 300 words. But I'm
>>>>> looking forward to further exploring this idea of  selfies and connecting
>>>>> disparate modes of existence.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks so much,
>>>>>
>>>>> Kelly
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 5:34 PM, Joonas Rokka <joonas.rokka at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi everyone and thanks Jonathan for the discussion opener and also
>>>>>> for including me as a discussant. My name is Joonas Rokka and currently
>>>>>> work in France at EMLYON Business School. In my ongoing research on the
>>>>>> visual, I am interested in studying how consumer-made selfies interrogate
>>>>>> and impact brands.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In other words, I try to understand the growingly popular phenomenon
>>>>>> where people tag, feature and express brands in their selfies. At this
>>>>>> point, I am trying to learn how that happens (the practices) and what
>>>>>> exactly they post (content) but also how the heterogeneity of brand-tagging
>>>>>> selfie images relate to and resonate with other brand images (for example
>>>>>> by the brand).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I find it interesting because much of the branding work that we know
>>>>>> is established on the idea that brands express their authentic and
>>>>>> charismatic “vision” through images (ads, video) that are carefully
>>>>>> crafted, curated and assembled. What the brand-tagging selfies bring is
>>>>>> this whole multitude of visions and expressions that are diffused on a
>>>>>> massive scale. I would argue this poses major new challenges to brands (and
>>>>>> researchers) primarily because of the visual: the selfie images entail a
>>>>>> new language, aesthetic, and trajectory of communication – as Jonathan has
>>>>>> show in his research – that is radically different from, for example, more
>>>>>> traditional textual interaction with brands. For example, while it is quite
>>>>>> possible to code textual postings as “negative” or “positive” (what data
>>>>>> monitoring software can readily and with some success do) the same is a
>>>>>> very complex issue with pictures.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But yes, I will explain how I deal with some of these issues at the
>>>>>> Kern conference and tell also about my project on “champagne selfies”. It’s
>>>>>> a project where I used a data monitoring software to gather selfie images
>>>>>> that feature most talked about champagne brands (I follow 19 different
>>>>>> brands).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I personally prefer to conceive selfies as a rather broadly defined
>>>>>> type of image. But I am curious to hear how you define the limits of what
>>>>>> selfies are, and where can we say selfie is different to say self-portrait
>>>>>> for example? How do you see it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joonas
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 6:42 PM, Jonathan Schroeder <jesgla at rit.edu>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>>>>>>> Here are the rest of my invitees for this discussion:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doug Allen is Chair of Markets, Innovation, and Design at Bucknell
>>>>>>> University’s School of Management. His research focuses on consumer culture
>>>>>>> and emphasizes practice theory in the context of various domains of
>>>>>>> experience ranging from consumer choice to financial investing practices.
>>>>>>> His work has appeared in a number of journals in marketing, consumer
>>>>>>> research, and finance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mehita Iqani is Associate Professor in Media Studies at the
>>>>>>> University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg, South Africa. She is the
>>>>>>> author of Consumer Culture and the Media: Magazines in the Public Eye
>>>>>>> (2012) and Consumption, Media and the Global South: Aspiration Contested
>>>>>>> (2015).  She received her PhD from the Department of Media and
>>>>>>> Communications at London School of Economics and Political Science.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Richard Kedzior is assistant professor of Markets, Innovation and
>>>>>>> Design at Bucknell University’s School of Management. As a consumer
>>>>>>> researcher he focuses on issues at the intersection of culture and
>>>>>>> technology such as digital materiality. His recent work on the interplay of
>>>>>>> digital technologies and consumer identities has been published in Journal
>>>>>>> of Marketing Management. His articles has also been published in numerous
>>>>>>> edited volumes dedicated to consumption and consumer culture.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> empyre forum
>>>>>>> empyre at lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au
>>>>>>> http://empyre.library.cornell.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> empyre forum
>>>>>> empyre at lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au
>>>>>> http://empyre.library.cornell.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> empyre forum
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>>>>> http://empyre.library.cornell.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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