[-empyre-] Machine Dreams

[Murat Nemet-Nejat]

Hi Ben,

I have two questions in relation to your post:

"... and thought of dreams as a possible
non-rational, non-problem-solving, non-task-oriented form of novelty
generation..."

Is a dream a novelty creation? On what basis are you making this
equivalence?

"... built a system meant as a
site-specific generative artwork that 'senses' the world through a live
camera and creates
*its own internal simulation of reality that is manifest in perceptual,
dreaming and mind-wandering modes*. ..."

It's true that dreaming, more specifically daydreaming, has an appearance
of wandering. But, once again, you are equating the two. How do you know
that in dreaming (particularly in the kind that occurs during sleep) an
inner logic, not easily available to the conscious mind, does not order
that "wandering"? (Our understanding of dreaming that occurred in the 20th
century suggests that.) Does your algorithms take that into account  or do
you replace it with the "inner logic" of the machine. So we have
"mechanical sheep" dreaming"?

Ciao,
Murat



On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 5:20 PM, B. Bogart <ben at ekran.org> wrote:

> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
> Hello All,
>
> My apologies for jumping on this older message, but I could not resist
> responding to the subject.
>
> Mark, thank you for posting info on this event. I will check out the
> video stream.
>
> Since 2008 I've been developing a series of site-specific installations
> that use machine learning and computer vision to construct their own
> dreams (and perceptions). I came to the work after masters study in the
> context of machine creativity and thought of dreams as a possible
> non-rational, non-problem-solving, non-task-oriented form of novelty
> generation.
>
> I ended up doing a PhD on the topic and built a system meant as a
> site-specific generative artwork that 'senses' the world through a live
> camera and creates its own internal simulation of reality that is
> manifest in perceptual, dreaming and mind-wandering modes.  The approach
> and model of dreaming is currently being used to appropriate popular
> cinematic depictions of AI.
>
> For more info:
>
> http://www.ekran.org/ben/wp/2009/dm2/
>
> http://www.ekran.org/ben/wp/2012/an-artist-in-processa-
> computational-sketch-of-dreaming-machine-3/
>
> http://www.ekran.org/ben/wp/2014/watching-and-dreaming-
> 2001-a-space-odyssey-2014/
>
> http://www.ekran.org/ben/wp/2017/watching-blade-runner-2016/
>
> https://youtu.be/Clp0blcHG8M
>
> https://youtu.be/xYtt8qSwJws
>
> Ben Bogart, PhD
> www.ekran.org
>
>
>
> On 2017-05-22 08:45 AM, Mark Marino wrote:
> > ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi, Machine Dreamers,
> >
> > I'm so excited for this week's discussion.  Our Machine Dreams encounter
> > was one I will not forget.  For those of you who missed it, you can
> > watch a somewhat pixelated version here.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFYFaWrqZik
> >
> > As I read over our publication from Machine Dreams, flip through the
> > pages of Radio heart, or think about our time together, I'm struck by
> > the shear humanity of the whirls with robots.  Or rather, I'm struck by
> > the parts of humanity that emerge from the whirls.
> >
> > Why are we so drawn to the machines of our machine dreams, as people, as
> > artists, as dreamers? I'm starting to think that it is not their
> > inability to be completely human but instead their ability to fully
> > embody one part of the human attributes without manifesting the full
> > meat sack of messy, squishy embodied being. In other words, they allow
> > us to imagine intensely our humanity in part.   Not metonymic but in
> > isolation.
> >
> > An emotion.  A logical flow.  A sense of consideration without empathy.
> > Knowledge without understanding.
> >
> > But our intense encounter with even that part of humanity -- that part
> > of humanity isolated from the whole -- is transformative.
> >
> > "I still hear you radio heart beating
> > Inside the meat of mine."
> >
> > And of course, no doubt this partiality is part and parcel of our
> > experience of one another.
> >
> > That is my first thought.  Looking forward to our conversation.
> >
> > Best,
> > Mark Marino
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > empyre forum
> > empyre at lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au
> > http://empyre.library.cornell.edu
> >
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> empyre forum
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