[-empyre-] sex death love - on AGEING

Sun Sep 29 07:57:32 AEST 2019

Dear Murat,

I take your point. And its a good call to invite me to re-read Alan's post,
which I think resonates with my own (in the description of grandparent as a
constraining assigned role).

I was careless. I value the insights into systemic oppression offered by
intersectional feminist approaches when thinking about this. AND I should
have made clear that I understand patriarchy (asserted through religion,
law and family) to be equally oppressive and restrictive to people
regardless of their sex.

Thanks
Ruth

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:15 PM Murat Nemet-Nejat <muratnn at gmail.com> wrote:

> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
> Hi Ruth and other participants,
>
> Why is the issue and prejudices around aging are focused around women with
> the added implication that these prejudices are the work of men ("the
> machinery of patriarch")? As if men do not get old and suffer social
> prejudices despite the fact that Alan Sondheim gave a good list of them. As
> far as I can see, no one resp[onded to him. I thinkwe should try to get
> outside our narrow identity frameworks if we want any meaningful discussios
> nor sharing of experiences.
>
> Ciao,
> Murat
>
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 11:20 AM Ruth Catlow <ruthcatlow at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>>
>> I'd like to thank you all, and especially Annie, for your writing in this
>> thread.
>>
>>
>> I remember in 2010 when Annie wrote about menopause and sexuality. I was
>> struck by her anger that no-one ever told her/us that it might be that way.
>>
>>
>> The anger alerted me to something very important.
>>
>>
>> It hadn't occurred to me then that my aging body-chemistry could
>> permanently change the way it feels to be alive, and in relation to other
>> people...which it does.
>>
>>
>> And that if it could, that it might open up whole new dimensions of
>> relating and resonating with the world, whilst leaving behind others. It
>> does.
>>
>>
>> It also hadn't really dawned on me how much of my place in the world was
>> made out of something like sexuality, and therefore narrated and shaped by
>> a mess of political social construction.
>>
>>
>> This is a very difficult topic to be open about on a personal
>> level...another layer of the machinery of patriarchy that determines
>> women's identity and role in relation to the institution of the family
>> (rehearsing an old Christian line here I know) - of women's best destiny
>> lying along the continuum of innocent girl, through sexual creature and
>> nurturing mother, to kind grandmother, to scary crone - with sexuality
>> confined to sexual creature and mother segment. To step off this line is
>> still to invite blame, shame and harm in so many many places.
>>
>>
>> And as with many feminist questions, much of the delicate work of
>> confronting and rewriting the given narrative to match a living experience
>> that breaks oppressive and unjust constraints, has to be done first, in
>> private, to avoid exposing and betraying the personal trust of our closest
>> friends and lovers. Our shared experiences cannot automatically be used as
>> subject for public examination.
>>
>>
>> So I read this thread as a wonderful use of the extended zone of trust
>> created by this 'soft skinned space'. I am deeply appreciative of the
>> courage and directness of this conversation.
>>
>> <3<3<3<3
>>
>> Ruth
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 1:01 PM Annie Abrahams <bram.org at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>>> Hi Sandy,
>>>
>>> I'm sorry if I gave that impression, but your remarks were so full of
>>> enthusiasm and positivity that I needed another take on it. I think you
>>> understand that.
>>> Your remark triggered something in me that I tried to analyze and write
>>> into existence.
>>> That is not easy.
>>> I am still thinking about starting a short research that tries to talk
>>> about sex and ageing. Take a month to see and read all I can, to do some
>>> interviews and record what I find on a website. Trying to scetch a very
>>> divers map of the "territory". I feel an urge, but is it enough .... is it
>>> important?
>>> Would others be interested? and how should I approach such a thing to
>>> let it be important to others?
>>>
>>> Cheering back
>>> Annie
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 5:28 AM Allucquere Rosanne Stone <
>>> allucquere.stone at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Annie,
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure if you were claiming that my remarks, insofar as they
>>>> touched on sex, confirmed "mainstream" ideas.  Perhaps what I wrote could
>>>> have been read that way, but only if you don't know me very well. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Sandy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Annie Abrahams wrote on 9/27/19 4:18 AM:
>>>>
>>>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> When McKenzie asked about ageing and Sandy answered I felt unease. I
>>>> thought my own experience not relevant for the context and so I didn't
>>>> react. Also I needed some distance to check my feelings and to see if this
>>>> wasn't an only personal issue. So I wrote Shu Lea and talked with friends.
>>>> Thanks Shu Lea for inviting me to try to express myself.
>>>>
>>>> My reaction is not about “us” older people – we find our ways - it is
>>>> for the younger ones (as the 18 year old McKenzie) so they will have a more
>>>> diverse image of what might come. Sexuality in old age and ageing in
>>>> general are subjects that are not treated seriously. Ageing can be hard and
>>>> we should be openly talking about it in detail. Ageing is also beautiful,
>>>> yes, but not only ….
>>>> We all have our own stories, our own way of dealing, enjoying and
>>>> mourning about it.
>>>>
>>>> After rereading Sandy's reaction to McKenzie I saw she was more subtile
>>>> than I first thought, so why was I angry? Probably because hers was the
>>>> only reaction to McKenzie's question and it was confirming “main stream”
>>>> ideas I see too often in popular media.
>>>> “Sex after 60 is still good - it's impossibility is a myth - there are
>>>> simple solutions for vaginal dryness and erection and ejaculation problems
>>>> - but you need to take care, to keep it going, to learn how to keep it up
>>>> ….. “.
>>>> Why should I do that? Why?
>>>>
>>>> For me it feels as if I would have to conform to an unwritten rule. Sex
>>>> is about penetration …..
>>>> Is it?
>>>> Not for me, at least not anymore. There is something “fake” about
>>>> suggesting it is. We need diversity in the discourse. There should be more
>>>> stories …
>>>> Life didn't go on as before and media shouldn't pretend it should /
>>>> could. It doesn't! And we shouldn't punish ourselves with “false” ideas.
>>>>
>>>> For me life became easier - I am now 65. Getting older means going to
>>>> the important things, not being bothered anymore, but still, I am
>>>> confronted almost daily with thoughts and things not possible anymore. I
>>>> doubt what is normal and what not, I resist, I give way. I fear the
>>>> loneliness coming - I choose not to have children.
>>>> Sexuality for me is affection, tenderness and bodily sensations and
>>>> that can still be terrific (great and terrifying at the same time), but it
>>>> is completely different from the hormone influenced frenzy, athletic
>>>> activity it was before. So why call it still sex?
>>>>
>>>> Something of what I feel might be visible in a 3 min video performance
>>>> I did with Martina Ruhsam in 2015. "*besides, Dear Body*" was a
>>>> Turbulence commission. You can see the archive
>>>> https://vimeo.com/131117890. I wrote about the performance afterwards:
>>>> “*It felt as if we created a continuum in difference and made a
>>>> statement that said „don’t worry, this is life“. I wanted it to be a gift.
>>>> There was a big shock when I looked at the recording of the performance,
>>>> when I looked at my naked body. I see this body every day in a mirror, but
>>>> the video image is not the same as a mirror image – there was no head, no
>>>> action going on, just the body to look at. It took time to overcome my
>>>> personal aversion to my own ageing body, to accept the breathing image, to
>>>> accept its reality, to let the video live as an independent object showing
>>>> ageing, a tender connexion, and a crack.*”
>>>> https://aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/09/04/besides-some-reflections-on-the-first-three-performances/
>>>>
>>>> Ageing is related to "death" another "taboo" subject - too intimate to
>>>> talk about? In “*besides, moved by some thing.*” also a turbulence
>>>> commissions with Martina Ruhsam we talked about death and dying.
>>>> https://vimeo.com/131117872 (49 min)
>>>> "*When facing death or illness all the accumulated knowledge
>>>> surrounding these issues is displaced by experiences that can hardly be
>>>> shared. Can liminal experiences be communicated verbally?*"
>>>>
>>>> After this we had several private online conversation sessions with 6
>>>> women on the subject. Then we stopped ... technology was not easy for all,
>>>> connexion sometimes bad and life brought us elsewhere. For some time I have
>>>> been thinking about starting a "death café" in Montpellier (
>>>> https://deathcafe.com ) but ....
>>>> Unfinished, ongoing...
>>>>
>>>> merci thanks dank
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 7:46 AM Shu Lea Cheang <shulea at earthlink.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> dear empyre-ers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The September month on -empyre-  doesnt seem to be ending, so many
>>>>> threads to follow up...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me recall some moments -
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> McKenzie Wark ever so inncocently – 11/09/2019 post
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *So Sandy: can you tell me a it about ageing? I just turned 58 and am
>>>>> already a middle aged woman...*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Allucquere Rosanne Stone ever so cheerfully – 12/09/2019 post
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *I can only tell you about aging from a personal perspective.  So ok,
>>>>> I’m, what, 82, 83, something?  I write, code, make stuff, and raise hell,
>>>>> active in several professional fields, sex is terrific…if anything, it gets
>>>>> better with time.  This isn’t a tell-all, so I’ll leave it at that.  I
>>>>> don’t hike, climb, or snowboard as much as I did, but I’m beginning to
>>>>> think that’s psychological.  Anyway, if it’s words of encouragement you
>>>>> want, you can have all I’ve got, and I’ve got plenty.  I’m fully aware that
>>>>> my view is not a universal one, and I can’t speak for trans* folk who find
>>>>> aging hard.  But from this admittedly limited perspective, in this
>>>>> particular embodiment, I intend to keep on adventuring, theorizing, and
>>>>> making love with the throttle pushed up to 110% until my body simply
>>>>> explodes.  I invite you to join me.*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Annie Abrahams asked to bring back  these topics - sex death love and
>>>>> ageing
>>>>>
>>>>> ·  *"**Annie Abrahams: The belief that, after menopause, sexual
>>>>> intercourse goes on as before is mistaken. At least it didn’t for me. This
>>>>> made me really angry for some time, as nobody had warned me! It felt very
>>>>> lonely. I think that the sexual life of post-menopausal women is still very
>>>>> much a taboo subject that people shun away from.*"
>>>>> http://digicult.it/digimag/issue-058/annie-abrahams-allergic-to-utopias/
>>>>> (2010)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For these last few days of September as leaves yet to fall off  the
>>>>> branches, I like to introduce Annie Abrahams, also bring in Miha
>>>>> Colner, the curator who’s been preparing an exhibition *On Ageing at *MGLC
>>>>> – International Centre of Graphic Arts (Ljublijan, Slovania).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Annie Abrahams is a Dutch artist living in France. She has a M2 in
>>>>> biology from the University of Utrecht and a MA2 from the Academy of Fine
>>>>> Arts of Arnhem. In her work she questions the possibilities and limits of
>>>>> communication, specifically investigating its modes under networked
>>>>> conditions. Using video and performance as well as the internet, she
>>>>> develops what she calls an aesthetics of attention and trust, in which
>>>>> human behaviour is the main material. She is known worldwide for her netart
>>>>> and is an internationally regarded pioneer of networked performance art and
>>>>> collective writing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Full cv bio (336 Ko) https://www.bram.org/info/aabrahams_cvbio_eng.pdf
>>>>> 2.3 Mo 20 pages with images - book
>>>>> https://www.bram.org/info/aabrahams_images.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Miha Colner(1978) is an art historian who works as a curator at MGLC -
>>>>> International Centre of Graphic Arts, Ljubljana. He is also active as a
>>>>> publicist, specialised in photography, printmaking, artists’ moving image
>>>>> and various forms of (new) media art. Since 2005 he has been a contributor
>>>>> of newspapers, magazines, specialist publications, and his personal blog,
>>>>> as well as part-time lecturer. He lives and works in Ljubljana, Slovenia.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://mihacolner.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's see how this run, maybe try to smoke Sandy out of cave and get
>>>>> warkk to bring in some techno beats!
>>>>>
>>>>> sl
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> empyre forum
>>> empyre at lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au
>>> http://empyre.library.cornell.edu
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Co-founder & Artistic director of Furtherfield & DECAL Decentralised Arts
>> Lab
>> +44 (0) 77370 02879
>>
>> *Furtherfield *disrupts and democratises art and technology through exhibitions,
>> labs & debate, for deep exploration, open tools & free thinking.
>> furtherfield.org <http://www.furtherfield.org/>
>>
>> *DECAL* Decentralised Arts Lab is an arts, blockchain & web 3.0
>> technologies research hub
>>
>> for fairer, more dynamic & connected cultural ecologies & economies now.
>>
>> decal.is <http://www.decal.is>
>>
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>> empyre at lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au
>> http://empyre.library.cornell.edu
>
> _______________________________________________
> empyre forum
> empyre at lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au
> http://empyre.library.cornell.edu

-- 
Co-founder & Artistic director of Furtherfield & DECAL Decentralised Arts
Lab
+44 (0) 77370 02879

*Furtherfield *disrupts and democratises art and technology through
exhibitions,
labs & debate, for deep exploration, open tools & free thinking.
furtherfield.org <http://www.furtherfield.org/>

*DECAL* Decentralised Arts Lab is an arts, blockchain & web 3.0 technologies
research hub

for fairer, more dynamic & connected cultural ecologies & economies now.

decal.is <http://www.decal.is>

Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company limited by Guarantee
registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205.
Registered business address: Ballard Newman, Apex House, Grand Arcade,
Tally Ho Corner, London N12 0EH.
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