Re: [-empyre-] the use in girls coming

Hi Christiano,

thank you for this reply.
i've nothing against the expression of informed strong opinions-
but i'm not overly fond of dismissive remarks that precede an attentive, careful reading of a work.

i wonder how it is that you could develop such an immediate assessment of julianne's work from just one post? i myself have some critical concerns regarding her approach, but i was going to ask a few more questions before i formulated anything like a conclusion.



On Thursday, December 5, 2002, at 10:22  AM, Cristiano Bianchi wrote:

Hi Katherine,

I'm a guest here as well, simply expressing an
opinion. A rather strong one, if you like, but then
it's not the the Cyberfeminist Manifest goes down that
light either.

It's not hostility per se, the reason of my message. I
thought I could express an opinion and I found deeply
irritating what I the misuse of feminism of the
cyberfeminist post.



Now, while I understand the reason, motivation and
complexity of the feminist movement elsewhere, as a
rection to a (still) male dominated world,


i'm sorry, christiano, but nothing you've posted so far (these last two) leads me to believe that you understand the reasons for or complexities of feminism in cyberspace. (for example, to characterize feminism as merely a reaction to mysogyny is itself a problemmatic definition. ) i'm not sure you're in a position to judge the "misuse of feminism." i wouldn't say i'm in such a position either. again, this postulates that there is one feminism and one way to go about it.



I do
believe that such a movement is rather pointless in
the digital environemt, where you have exactly the
same rights, whether man or women. I cannot accept or
believe that someone is fighting against a male
dominated cyberspace (whatever that means) within the
most egalitarian and democratic medium ever. Where as
a woman you can do exactly the same things as men and
not only. As a women you can pretend to be a man. And
viceversa.

there has been about 15 years of writing (and not just by cyberfeminists) to contradict your assertions here.
the internet is far from egalitarian. we don't leave behind our politics or our gendered ways of looking at the world when we construct and participate in cyberspace.
and cyberfeminism is not just concerned with combatting inequality.
can you and i agree this much that our experiences of the physical world are different because of our experiences of it as a woman and as a man?
much cyberfeminist literature is concerned with how these gendered and sexualized experiences of the world inform our understanding of and behaviour in cyberspace.
i actually turned to feminist theory in the first place *because* of my experiences in cyberpace- it was only there that i found a language that could adequately express the nature of authorship in cybertext.


i would urge you to reconsider whether you do really understand what cyberfeminism is on about before you dismiss the project out of hand.
let's have critique, by all means. but informed critique.

k.



So sorry for interrupting your daily activities, and
forcing you to come back on this :-), but I felt the
same as you regarding the first post. Together with
the strong temptation to start a cyber-male chauvinist
movement as well, just to be even ;-) Of course I'm
joking, just in case this is misinterpreted as well.

I'm still convinced we need better ideas.

Best regards,

Cristiano



--- parrishka <parrishka@sympatico.ca> wrote: > 
though i've been subscribed since May, i haven't
always paid the
strictest attention to the empyre posts because
they've usually been so
compelling & thought-provoking that they would
distract me from the
rest of my tasks for the day.

so my knowledge of this list's behaviour is not
completely reliable,
but i cannot recall ever seeing such immediate
hostility towards a
guest here.

you know what i find boring? having to dissuade
myself repeatedly from
coming to the conclusion that these kinds of attacks
and/or dismissive
gestures are manifestations of a masculinist fear.
it feels too easy,
and i like to think better of my fellow men.

juliane, i look very much forward to hearing what
you have to say.
cyberfeminism is just as complex and fractious a
subject as feminism,
there are many feminisms, and many cyberfeminisms,
and i still am
hopeful that we can explore these issues in the
intelligent,
thoughtful, expansive, critical manner that has
characterized the
discussions here in the past.

katherine parrish
http://www.meadow4.com/squish

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