Re: [-empyre-] [empyre] producers and consumers

[Jonathan Lipkin <jlipkin@ramapo.edu>]

Students are surrounded by pop culture in which appropriation - from  
sampling in rap music and Moby to Madonna who has taken on various  
personnae over the years - is widespread. It is understandable, perhaps  
predictable, that they would try to emulate this in their own work.  
What they seem to miss is the fact that pop artists (or fine artists  
such as Sherrie Levine, who 'appropriated' Edward Weston) have a  
critical engagement with the work, that the appropriation leads to  
transformation of the ideas into those of the artists.

I'm saddened to hear Mary's comment that her students feel that  
commercial works speak over their voices, but it's something I've seen  
myself. What I'm wondering is what, if any, solution folks see to this  
passivity in students.



On Monday, December 16, 2002, at 11:15 PM, mary flanagan wrote:

> Joseph -
> thanks for your thoughts. I call my thoughts utopian because I  
> simultaneously cannot help but see the "megalith of the consumption of  
> popular culture" as a very very large obstacle towards true  
> spontaneous and collective creative acts. As a committed teacher, I am  
> a firm believer in personal creativity. However on occasion I have  
> experienced art and media students, for example, turning in projects  
> created by other artists or by Hollywood as their own -- not as  
> plagiaristic solutions to the assignment, but because the commercial  
> works "said what they wanted to say *for* them" and the students  
> thought this was the same as personal creativity. (Believe me, this  
> has resulted in many many long discussions!) In many circles, at least  
> in the US, we've become a culture where years can pass by before  
> someone might face the challenge of actually *making* anything - food,  
> clothing, gift, etc etc.
>
> But -- I'm optimistic and personally chipping away at this particular  
> megalith. It would thrill me to no end to find out about and download  
> music by Mrs. Ludmilla Borghese of Pavia, for example, instead of  
> Madonna! But right now, for example, the top ten on filesharing  
> systems focused on music tend to be the top ten on the charts, etc.
>
> ~ m a r y
>
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. the role of participants as *both* producers and consumers  
> > (Joseph Nechvatal)
> >
> > --__--__--
> >
> > Message: 1
> > From: "Joseph Nechvatal" <joseph_nechvatal@hotmail.com>
> > To: empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> > Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 22:53:38 +0000
> > Subject: [-empyre-] the role of participants as *both* producers and  
> > consumers
> > Reply-To: empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Mary
> >
> > When you say that "the role of participants as *both* producers and  
> > consumers
> > needs to be emphasized" I fully consent. This is very important. Yes,  
> > we must look forward to the time when every user is also a server - a  
> > time when the upload/download process is complimentary (at least  
> > between creative people). This in no way seems utopian to me. Does it  
> > to you?
> >
> > Please let me hear from you on this at your leisure.
> >
> > Amitiés,
> > Joseph Nechvatal
> >
> > home page: http://www.nechvatal.net
> >
> >
> > -:*:-.,*:-.,_,-:*:-.,*:-.,_,-:*:-.,*:-.,_,-:*:-.,*:-.,_,-:*:-.,*:- 
> > .,_,-:*:-.,*:-.,_,-:*:-.,*:-.,_,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online  
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> >
> >
> > --__--__--
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
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> >
> > End of empyre Digest
>
> --
>
> [http://www.maryflanagan.com]
>
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)( / _ Jonathan Lipkin
() \ _ Associate Professor of Digital Media
)( / _ Ramapo College of New Jersey
() \ _ http://www.jonathanlipkin.com
)( / _ 201/ 684/ 7056/