Re: [-empyre-] experience Vs commerce

["Patrick Lichty" <voyd@voyd.com>]

> > The novelty will wear off.
>
> that's the thing patrick, it ain't a novelty, it is the essence of the
> medium. what will wear off is the novelty of artists using computers (it
> already has), and the novelty of artists using the web (any day now).
> and what will be left? the actual "objects" the artists produced, and
> these will be evaluated in terms of both concept and delivery. nice
> idea, sloppy execution will in time be seen as just that, as there will
> be a steady growth of "sunday net artists" who can "paint" as well as
> the "masters."

I think there's a big difference between the novelty that culture ascribes
to something (the 'media image' as it were) and the actual thing.  In
actuality, coding isn't novel at all; but the curators seem to find it novel
at the moment, or so I percieve it - correct me if I'm wrong.  Sorry if I'm
not being clear here, as I personally don't think it's novel at all, I
merely see it as being percieved as novel in contemporary culture.  It's
more 'fashionable' right now.  The reality is that it's very practical.

Of course the 'objects' will remain.

as there will
> be a steady growth of "sunday net artists" who can "paint" as well as
> the "masters."

I doubt that. That's technique.  I think that there will be more people
coming up, but there has been and always will be.  We'll just be more aware
of them because we'll be here to see them come up.  It'll just seem like
there's more of them.  Maybe there _will_ be more, but then many of us will
merely do something different.  I have a proposal out for a large,
non-interactive ceramics installation.


> thanks re glasbead, pack yer meds, come to new york and see EARTH (its
> what i did with the glasbead rotational codebase :). and yes we are
> basically on the same page here, the only contention being that you
> suggest "code for code's sake" is a novelty and that i suggest "concept
> for concept's sake" is also a novelty.

I agree wholeheartedly.

we both agree that "synergy is
> the thing." if the perfect cocktail is one part code and one part
> concept, you get more for your money if the glass is big.

YES!

 and then
> there's the bartender's buyback (do you have that in Louisiana?) not to
> mention happy hour.

That and drive thru daquiri bars.

> > What I argue is that there is a dominant meme going on now
> > about coding which sometimes mitigates the inclusion of some pretty
marginal
> > work.
>
> again i agree, but i dislike this notion being used to discourage the
> artist from exploring/exploiting the lower level tech. what you say is
> not only that "its okay not to understand the tech" but that "artists
> probably shouldn't." thats the realm of the geek and we don't need to
> know that. i think we do.

No way.  Hardly.  I believe it is their CHOICE.  Their problem is they don't
want to go there.  I honestly prefer to get behind the dashboard and pull
the levers myself.  You're way off here.  I don't discourage anyone here, if
they want to do it, by all means! I'm actually pretty neutral - if it fits
what you need to do, and if it fits where the muse takes you, then go! Get
under the hood!  But I'm NEVER a proponent of 'dumbing down', merely
sometime you have to balance how much neural CPU cycle resource space you
have to dedicate to various aspects of the project, that's all.  How much
sociological reseach, cultural study, API twiddling, mass media
manipulation, hardware implementation, do you want to do on any given aspect
of the work?  It's always a mix, one just chooses how to allocate one's
technical, cultural, and intellectual resources.  One can put a lot of
cultural code into something that has relatively simple algorithmic code.
It's all a balance, like not so much that you have a diamond, it's how you
cut it.  And I don't see that many more master diamond cutters today.

I hope you don't think that since I question determinism (re: suggesting
this is the way we _have_ to do it), it means that I am against the practice
itself.  I do it myself, how can I be against it?  But then, I question it
as well.

> > However, I don't think that 'the medium is the m(e/a)ssage', but it can
be.
> > You can ride it, or it can wind up riding you.
>
> even though i may be interpreted in the mccluhan sense, i too don't
> think the medium is the message. the medium is the messenger, and don't
> blame him.

Again, I think we're in the same camp, there's just a misunderstanding here.

> there is no point in getting down to it at that level. but perhaps
> photoshop is not a medium at all, its a tool, the medium there being
> photography. so in other words, where is the medium? the artist's job is
> to fucking find it! i havn't yet felt the constraints you mention
> because i have yet to really find the medium.

This is good, but I think we're slipping back and forth.  I'll probably have
to come to NYC and hash this out.  may, my man.

> well, thats a PhD disertation in and of itself, but i will risk it and
> say, yes, kelly and stella and zen koans are simple, period. the complex
> thought arises from the comparison of the simple unit to each
> individual's very complex worldview. without the pre-existence of the
> complex worldview, the koan and the kelly and the stella would have no
> effect. and it can be argued that the k+k+s become less and less
> effective the more they are percieved and added into the worldview.  the
> complex thing here is the worldview, not any one part.

ANd the way one references it.

> exactly, its the hook. but not being a scholar of it, i can't really say
> just how complex cage et.al. actually are, and lets not forget every
> artist carries at least one pound of bullshit.

There's a reason why they are called bullshit "artists"... :)

> good point, although an art career perhaps is a game, art itself isn't,
> and if two opponents have equal skill level, the one with more queens
> *will* win the game.

Mariko Mori is a testament to this.

> yeah, and explosions are good too.
>
> > This is something that I often fail miserably at.
>
> dont try so hard.

If you saw my latest video, "8 Bits or Less", made with the wristcam, you'd
have no doubt about my ability to relax.

But critical theory is just one form of code that I write.