Re: [-empyre-] transparency+digidos

[John Klima <klima@echonyc.com>]

Cristiano Bianchi wrote:
 
> Is there a value in slowness? And boring tasks? Edgar Degas was
> convinced of so. But, then, he's also dead ;-)

i also appreciate repetitive tasks, and get value from them -- the
boredom allows the mind to wander. is a computer ever bored? is there
value for the computer itself, in what it's processing? does it enjoy
being a computer? certainly not. 

you cant have art without boredom.

j



> 
> Cristiano
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: empyre-admin@imap.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> > [mailto:empyre-admin@imap.cofa.unsw.edu.au] On Behalf Of John Klima
> > Sent: 27 March 2002 17:21
> > To: empyre@imap.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> > Subject: Re: [-empyre-] transparency+digidos
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cristiano Bianchi wrote:
> > >
> > > > Damien Everett
> > >
> > > > The main reason I've been working in the area of generative
> > > > programming is to evolve my limited imagination, and make
> > original
> > > > art/music. By creating agents to inhabit new worlds of
> > computational
> > > > possibility, I allow them to suggest interesting manifestations.
> > >
> > > I must reject that. I mean the very idea and concept in its
> > essence.
> > > Original art/music does not need a computer for its generation. Not
> > > even computer/digital art. I trust the unique judgement
> > power of the
> > > artist as creator. Art, ultimately, is for the fruition of human
> > > being, not computers (yet!). Mozart, Arvo Part and the likes CREATE
> > > ORIGINAL art without the aid of a computer as their source of
> > > inspiration. While neural net are useful and good when it comes to
> > > washing machines programming and genetive algorithms have been
> > > successfully employed in managing airports, there are tasks where a
> > > limited number of final results, well defined constrains and set
> > > conditions are given, for the resolution of a practical problem in
> > > unexpected ways. That's fine.
> >
> > Indeed, though much of the public's concept of neural nets
> > and AI is heavily influenced by the fantasies of hollywood,
> > most AI is employed in extremely mundane tasks, like
> > converting a scanned document into editable text. However we
> > are beginning to see more concrete examples of machine
> > intelligence (ie creativity) from research labs and the
> > gaming industry.  Many characters in recent games have what
> > is refered to as "domain knowledge," a less than perfect (by
> > design) view of their world that they build on, and draw
> > from, to make decisions in the course of the game.  This
> > deviates from a rigid rule set (expert system) in that the
> > rule set is modified during play, so the programmer doesn't
> > completely define ahead of time, all the behavior a character
> > can have.
> >
> > When the artist/programmer invents or employs generative
> > algorithms, what they are doing is establishing a structure
> > and an initial set of parameters they then let loose.  if
> > they have a lick of sense, they watch the outcome and make
> > aesthetic decisions, modifying their structure and parameters
> > to achieve a better (what ever that might mean) result. So
> > yes, its not terribly interesting to create a generative
> > algorithm, let it loose, and accept what ever result it
> > offers as "Art" simply because it was generative and
> > algorithmic. with a domain system, the creator may spend
> > hours, even days, tweaking the "training set" until a desired
> > or pleasing outcome is achieved. the beauty of it being
> > generative is that it never works out the same way twice. but
> > the computer is not making the art here, the artist is, or
> > should be, constantly making aesthetic decisions and
> > modifying their structure accordingly.  All an artist ever
> > really does is make decisions.
> >
> > j
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> >
> 
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