Fwd: [-empyre-] FW: lob

Fri May 16 04:40:01 EST 2008

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Eduardo Molinari <archivocaminante at yahoo.com.ar>
Date: Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:52 AM
Subject: Re: [-empyre-] FW: lob
To: Jennifer Flores Sternad <jf at post.harvard.edu>

Dear Jenny,
very good your commentary!

I think that our reflections during ExArgentina were crossed by
the "hot atmosphere" of the crisis, the explotion of the neoliberal
discursse of "precarity", that was not the consequence but the cause
of more poverty in our country.

On that times (2001-2003) to say "from work to action" was very
important for me to talk about how capitalism in our societies
(without national industries, and this "detail" is in the center of my
remark about the diference between these two words) tries to normalize
flexibilization / precarity.

Then, is good to read our work (Exargentina project) in two times:

- "From work to action" (Köln, 2004) was focused in the crisis, in the
"explosion" of the laboratory that was making test about how
"precarity" works.

- "Lanormalidad" (Buenos Aires,2006) was focused in the "return" to
"normality", but... (and here is the point) when "precarity" must be
accepted as normal.

For me then, precarity is not good to be asume as a category for our
fight, because it was an imposition of the neoliberal language.

I can understand that in the nations with their own industries, this
means another thing.  But again, like I proposed from the begining,
our challenge -in this new step of our fight and dialogue- is to
destroy this code. We need new words. Precarity is for me like a
"trap".

In a romantic way, it seems like a good state, the social movements
are -in one sense- "precaire". But we need to take care, because we
are loosing the oportunity to imagine a new language, not in
connection with the capitalistic one.

Yes Jenny, like you says, different objectives and different ways or
organization are between unemployeed movements and piqueteros
movement.
We need to take care, because today, now, this movement (piqueteros)
in Argentine are really close to the government. And is easy to
understand this for me: they don't want to be precaire any more!

Only the radical left (old?) movements continue "out".

But... again, in the first world social dinamic, the unemployeed workers
are not in a "social limbo", withour anymoney. The social insurance
exists. Nobody is totally alone. And again, post industrialization is
working, isn't it? I mean, where are the hands that produce the
manufactures of the multinational companies? Not only robots, you
know!

Then, the relation between labor, work, precarity and poverty is
different -but totally connected- .

What I think is good is to think about objectives.
We want to be "precaire"?

all the best jenny!
can you resend to all the friends of empyre?
I will answer soon the other mail.

eduardo

Eduardo Molinari / Archivo Caminante
Aramburu 880, Dto.1 (1640) Martínez
Provincia de Buenos Aires – Argentina
0541 1 47 98 48 35

--- El jue 15-may-08, Jennifer Flores Sternad <jf at post.harvard.edu> escribió:

> De: Jennifer Flores Sternad <jf at post.harvard.edu>
> Asunto: Re: [-empyre-] FW: lob
> Para: archivocaminante at yahoo.com.ar
> Cc: "soft_skinned_space" <empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
> Fecha: jueves, 15 de mayo de 2008, 11:19 am
> Dear Moli,
>  how do you see  discussions on labor and work as framed by
> the
> concept of precarity compared with the  approach you took
> in
> ExArgentina?  I'm thinking, for example, of the
> discourse developed
> around ' fleeing from work to action'  or in your
> essay for
> LaNormalidad when you talk about the normalization or
> precarity  (ie
> poverty - (& i absolutely agree with you on the
> importance of marking
> that difference)
>
>  if precarity is meant to mark a departure from what is
> described as a
> traditional working class subject and established modes of
> labor
> organizing, then it seems to me that an important
> counterpoint  would
> be unemployed workers' movements / piquetero
> movements...
> but these strike me as very different . and organized
> around different demands.
> I'd like to know what you think about this...?
>
> besos,
> jenny
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 6:28 AM, Eduardo Molinari
> <archivocaminante at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
> > Dear Brian, dear Cara,
> > when I said that "precarity" is a central
> concept in argentina,
> > I'm talking about POVERTY.
> > We can't think that "precarity" have a
> good meaning in our societies (southamerican). Is a bad
> joke to think that without resources
> > we will do our activities in a better way.
> > Is a political hipocresy for me to talk in this way.
> > This was for me the "dificult" part of
> Risler/Bergel "experience".
> >
> > I don't want to organize our real social troubles
> with this concept.
> > We have poverty, not precarity.
> >
> > Precarity (in argentina) is part of the discursse of
> "flexibilization",
> > totally in the line of the economical change of the
> 90.
> >
> > we are in danger (in the sense that we will be
> "lost in translation")
> > if we use this word, because precarity for many young
> people in the G8 countries is a kind of stress, of
> emotional vibration when they feel
> > not totally sure about their professional future.
> >
> > But for us is not stress, is not an "exception
> state".
> >
> > sorry, totally respect, but...
> >
> > eduardo
> >
> > Eduardo Molinari / Archivo Caminante
> > Aramburu 880, Dto.1 (1640) Martínez
> > Provincia de Buenos Aires – Argentina
> > 0541 1 47 98 48 35
> >
> >
> > --- El jue 15-may-08, brian whitener
> <iwaslike at hotmail.com> escribió:
> >
> >> De: brian whitener <iwaslike at hotmail.com>
> >> Asunto: [-empyre-] FW: lob
> >> Para: empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> >> Fecha: jueves, 15 de mayo de 2008, 4:06 am
> >> >
> >> > "You are true Cara!!! precarity and
> starvation
> >> are central questions today.
> >> > In argentina, post-industry don't mean
> nothing. We
> >> didn't have NEVER a real national industry. Is
> >> post-nothing.
> >> > but then... your question is also our
> question."
> >> >
> >> > Precarity: a useful category in Latin
> America?
> >> >
> >> > there was an encurentro organized by Julia
> Risler and
> >> Martin Bergel in BA
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> http://estrecho.indymedia.org/newswire/display/21374/index.php
> >> >
> >> > i'm not sure what came of it, but i heard
> the
> >> experience was both interesting and dificult.
> >> >
> >> > brian
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 17:50:47 -0700
> >> >> From: archivocaminante at yahoo.com.ar
> >> >> Subject: Re: [-empyre-] expanded (CB)
> >> >> To: empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> >> >>
> >> >> Wonderrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
> >> >> fulllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
> >> >> maillllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.
> >> >>
> >> >> many images here dear Cara!
> >> >> thank you very much.
> >> >>
> >> >> I have time today to read your words.
> >> >>
> >> >> pigs pigs pigs pigs pigs pigs pigs pigs
> >> >> pigs pigs pigs pigs pigs pigs pigs pigs
> >> >> pigs pigs pigs pigs pigs pigs pigs pigs
> >> >>
> >> >> great.
> >> >> and thank you for Alberto
> Grecoooooooooooooooooo!
> >> >>
> >> >> un abrazo for Marc&Christina!
> >> >>
> >> >> Very important your commentary about
> migrations in
> >> America.
> >> >> Is really very important.
> >> >> I was 8 months last year in germany.
> >> >> strongs feelings there, and one of them
> was the
> >> question about migration in argentina.
> >> >> Catholic - Jewuis traditions are very
> strong
> >> tradition in argentina, they are in the
> "heart"
> >> of our mixed / mestiza society.
> >> >> Black people was killed, as slaves or
> >> "soldiers" during the war against
> Paraguay.
> >> >>
> >> >> I imagine that protestant / calvinist,
> also
> >> paganismus is working in the migrations of North
> America.
> >> >>
> >> >> Because of all this
> "migrations" I like
> >> very much to know more about pre-hispanic cultures
> in
> >> America. Is a central part of my investigation
> with
> >> artistic methods.
> >> >>
> >> >> Very good the images of insite05!!!!! I
> like this!
> >> Thank you very much!
> >> >>
> >> >> The last part of your mail is a very good
> >> devolution,
> >> >> I can say
> >> >> YES YES YES, "we" CAN identify
> >> >> material conditions that need to be
> addressed
> >> >> without representing other!
> >> >>
> >> >> Because we will present them together,
> >> >> like the blood of Genova in your mail.
> >> >> Those red material conditions(saddly)are
> present.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> For me is really a big challenge to
> identify these
> >> "material conditions"
> >> >> that have still a potence living or able
> to live.
> >> >>
> >> >> My Walking Archives / Archivo Caminante
> tries to
> >> do this, not for putting them "in
> order", but to
> >> transport.
> >> >>
> >> >> You are true Cara!!! precarity and
> starvation are
> >> central questions today.
> >> >> In argentina, post-industry don't
> mean
> >> nothing. We didn't have NEVER a real national
> industry.
> >> Is post-nothing.
> >> >> but then... your question is also our
> question.
> >> >>
> >> >> eduardo
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Eduardo Molinari / Archivo Caminante
> >> >> Aramburu 880, Dto.1 (1640) Martínez
> >> >> Provincia de Buenos Aires – Argentina
> >> >> 0541 1 47 98 48 35
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --- El dom 11-may-08, Jennifer Flores
> Sternad
> >> escribió:
> >> >>
> >> >>> De: Jennifer Flores Sternad
> >> >>> Asunto: [-empyre-] expanded (CB)
> >> >>> Para: "soft_skinned_space"
> >> >>> Fecha: domingo, 11 de mayo de 2008,
> 6:56 pm
> >> >>> from cara baldwin
> >> >>> (thank you, cara!)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ------ Forwarded Message
> >> >>> From: Cara Baldwin
> >> >>> Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 13:07:09 -0700
> >> >>> To: "moarquech at yahoo.com.mx,
> >> soft_skinned_space"
> >> >>> ,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Subject: Re: [-empyre-] Re: expanded
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Conversation in an elevator, .
> looking at the
> >> stains on
> >> >>> wood :
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --Which is better? This, or doing
> this?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --This.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --Bring him to see or bring them to
> see?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --Bring them to see.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Alberto Greco, from Manifesto
> Vivo-Dito, 1963
> >> >>>
> >> >>> back in the 90's (can't write
> this
> >> without using a
> >> >>> crackly old man
> >> >>> voice) i was saving barricades in my
> apartment
> >> for a rainy
> >> >>> day. i put
> >> >>> them on either side of the bridges
> that
> >> connected the city
> >> >>> and they
> >> >>> quietly disappeared. i changed my
> underwear in
> >> public and
> >> >>> told
> >> >>> everyone i was ana mendieta. learned
> about
> >> chicano cultural
> >> >>> politics
> >> >>> and activism. met collaborators and
> friends
> >> marc herbst and
> >> >>> christina
> >> >>> ulke and began years of conversation
> about
> >> anything we
> >> >>> could imagine
> >> >>> and do together. following seattle we
> found
> >> ourselves
> >> >>> spending the
> >> >>> summer in L.A. working with folks
> setting up
> >> an la
> >> >>> indymedia for the
> >> >>> 2000 democratic national convention.
> >> representation.
> >> >>> organization, and
> >> >>> lot's and lot's of
> >> >>>
> >> >>> pigs. pigs. pigs. pigs. pigs. p pigs.
> pigs.
> >> pigs. pigs.
> >> >>> pigs. pigs.
> >> >>> pigs. pigs. pigs. pigs. pigs. pigs.
> pigs.
> >> pigs. pigs. pigs.
> >> >>> pigs.
> >> >>> pigs. pigs. pigs. pigs. pigs. pigs.
> pigs.
> >> pigs.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> brian holmes wrote about the
> "inflated
> >> art scenes of
> >> >>> the 90s" and that
> >> >>> to "be an activist then was not
> >> fashionable in any
> >> >>> way, it was
> >> >>> considered totally retrograde in
> artistic
> >> circles."
> >> >>> critique at this
> >> >>> time lacked currency materially and
> culturally
> >> (narrow
> >> >>> sense of the
> >> >>> word) from where i was standing.
> listening to
> >> someone
> >> >>> slather on about
> >> >>> 68 and a postcolonial theorist's
> incisive
> >> critique of
> >> >>> metanarrative i
> >> >>> wondered if the blood i'd seen in
> images
> >> of the diaz
> >> >>> school around
> >> >>> genoa g8 was part of someone i loved.
> >> >>>
> >>
> http://www.nadir.org/nadir/initiativ/agp/free/genova/pics4a.htm
> >> >>>
> >> >>> adorno's "there is no love
> that is
> >> not an
> >> >>> echo." floating a desire to
> >> >>> share the acoustic space in which we
> breath,
> >> speak, feel
> >> >>> and act in a
> >> >>> way that is occupied and open—but
> not like a
> >> yoga group.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> i also respond to eduardo
> molinari's
> >> approach to the
> >> >>> expanded,
> >> >>> particularly considering migration
> patterns
> >> across the
> >> >>> americas and
> >> >>> would only extend that history and
> migration
> >> (not just
> >> >>> recent. not
> >> >>> just one way). grimson and
> kessler's on
> >> argentina and
> >> >>> the southern
> >> >>> cone: neoliberalism and national
> imaginations,
> >> and
> >> >>> dunbar-ortiiz's
> >> >>> roots of resistance speak to this in
> a
> >> localized and
> >> >>> concrete way.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> because of the relative economic
> stability in
> >> north america
> >> >>> during
> >> >>> 2000 most of the art i saw
> produced/reproduced
> >> in
> >> >>> institutional
> >> >>> contexts were either new media works
> of a post
> >> modern or
> >> >>> minimalist
> >> >>> aesthetic or frothy blown out
> paintings meant
> >> to illustrate
> >> >>> 'networks
> >> >>> and flows.' couldn't wait for
> >> something to disrupt
> >> >>> that. through the
> >> >>> democratic national convention
> mobilizations
> >> met sandra de
> >> >>> la loza,
> >> >>> working again with her, marc,
> christina and
> >> ryan griffis
> >> >>> and robby
> >> >>> herbst on collectively organized and
> >> community-based
> >> >>> projects the 2004
> >> >>> october surprise october surprise
> >> >>> http://www.theoctobersurprise.org/
> >> >>> and journal of aesthetics &
> protest
> >> >>> http://www.joaap.org/ starting in
> >> >>> 2001. the curator at the L.A. museum
> of
> >> contemporary art
> >> >>> who organized
> >> >>> the experimental exercise of freedom
> (with
> >> rina carvajal)
> >> >>> needed an
> >> >>> assistant— i was able to research
> and write
> >> about artists
> >> >>> from
> >> >>> central, south america and italy if i
> held my
> >> cards to my
> >> >>> chest.
> >> >>> actually, i was more like a child at
> the table
> >> who would
> >> >>> reemerge
> >> >>> occasionally sticky with cobwebs.
> cards can
> >> fit in your
> >> >>> back pocket
> >> >>> depending on who / where you are
> perceived to
> >> be. the
> >> >>> emphasis on
> >> >>> institutional critique at california
> institute
> >> of the arts
> >> >>> was
> >> >>> grounded even as it was too narrowly
> >> circumscribed. met
> >> >>> etcetera last
> >> >>> october without a joint, sadly. first
> saw
> >> their work in
> >> >>> another
> >> >>> institutional context at the centro
> cultural
> >> de tijuana at
> >> >>> inSITE
> >> >>> 2005. bill kelly and sandra were
> there as
> >> well. sunday
> >> >>> morning as
> >> >>> hurricane katrina wound toward new
> orleans
> >> bill kelly,
> >> >>> sandra and i
> >> >>> sat the golden glow of the
> haudenschildGarage
> >> listening to
> >> >>> what i
> >> >>> found fucked approaches to
> collectivity,
> >> mobility and
> >> >>> 'cultural'
> >> >>> exchange. everyone was wearing white
> linen
> >> except sandra
> >> >>> and me who
> >> >>> sat talking loudly shit (like
> children) in the
> >> back.
> >> >>>
> >> http://www.insite05.org/internal.php?pid=17-357
> women are
> >> >>> among those
> >> >>> compelled to learn early the many
> ways and to
> >> what extent
> >> >>> representation and invisibility are
> useful.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> can 'we' identify material
> conditions
> >> that urgently
> >> >>> need to be
> >> >>> addressed w/out representing others?
> this is
> >> an open
> >> >>> question and one
> >> >>> we work from and through every day.
> i'm on
> >> an overpass
> >> >>> with berries
> >> >>> falling out of my mouth. precarity
> gives way
> >> to starvation
> >> >>> at some
> >> >>> point and i would like to address
> that. the
> >> black panther
> >> >>> party
> >> >>> breakfast program is art.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> in addition to 'post
> politics' what is
> >> meant by
> >> >>> 'post industrial' at
> >> >>> this moment?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> sorry, I know I'm not following
> form
> >> handing threads
> >> >>> back in a tangled
> >> >>> sticky ball.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> empyre forum
> >> >>> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> >> >>> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Yahoo! Encuentros.
> >> >>
> >> >> Ahora encontrar pareja es mucho más
> fácil,
> >> probá el nuevo Yahoo! Encuentros
> >>
> http://yahoo.cupidovirtual.com/servlet/NewRegistration
> >> >>
> _______________________________________________
> >> >> empyre forum
> >> >> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> >> >> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> >> >
> >> > ________________________________
> >> > Make Windows Vista more reliable and secure
> with
> >> Windows Vista Service Pack 1. Learn more.
> >>
> >>
> _________________________________________________________________
> >> With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel
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> >> you.
> >>
> http://www.windowslive.com/mobile/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_mobile_052008_______________________________________________
> >> empyre forum
> >> empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> >> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> >
> >
> >      Tarjeta de crédito Yahoo! de Banco Supervielle.
> > Solicitá tu nueva Tarjeta de crédito. De tu PC
> directo a tu casa. www.tuprimeratarjeta.com.ar
> > _______________________________________________
> > empyre forum
> > empyre at lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> > http://www.subtle.net/empyre
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jennifer Flores Sternad
> 303.204.0003 (m)
> 213.483.6050 (h)

     Yahoo! Encuentros.

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-- 
Jennifer Flores Sternad
303.204.0003 (m)
213.483.6050 (h)