[-empyre-] who owns the city? (Istanbul)

[Cynthia Beth Rubin]

Ana - thanks for getting this discussion going.  I still have much to learn here, so thank you.

We are in a territory that was naturally is site of conflict because it is/was geographically at a strategic point.  The waves of movement are well recorded, and this makes the history all the more interesting.  

I am interested in how these different waves of culture and change are expressed in the work of the artists and other creative thinkers who live here today - or if the global art world is so strong that there is little impact.

Cynthia

On Sep 22, 2011, at 4:52 AM, Ana Valdés wrote:

> Thank you Miche and Andreas for a nice conversation. I did a project called Crusading where we hosted at -empyre here, (sadly with not so much discussion and our guests not very participative) and I did a great deal of research regarding the Crusades and the transformation of Constantinople to Byzantium and later to Istanbul. I enjoyed the Alexiad, written by Anna Commeno, the daughter of the emperor Alexis Commeno, the one who asked the Pope for a Crusade to help him against the Turks and the Arabs.
> He didn't know the Crusaders should sack Constantinople some years later...
> Ana
> 
> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
> thanks Ana!
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 7:43 PM, Ana Valdés <agora158 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I was there a week only but all ppl I met (Turks everyone) told me they felt the "turkization" and the erasing of the Byzantine past, very well related in the book "From the Holy Mountain", by William Dalrymple.
> He did a trip between the monasteries in Syria, Palestina and Turkey and saw the intentionality of the erasing of all traces of former cultures.
> Did you enter the Hagia Sofia? Crumbling away with zero maintenance...
> Ana
> 
> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
> hi Ana, just wondering why you feel 'all the remnants of the past are crumbling away' ? On the contrary, I feel the successive layers of history are very much alive, and also the mixity of the population and the neighborhoods
> , with so many recent first-generation immigrants from the rural Anatolian countryside, represent quite a mixture of temporalities, etc ... very unlike western europe, where only the buildings remain ... extented families and village cooperative solidarity also remain realities, as far as I could ascertain from speaking with Turkish friends (I gave a lecture to an all-turkish audience yesterday)
> 
> Michel
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 6:36 AM, Ana Valdés <agora158 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am bit curious about how did the people who travelled to Istanbul for the first time experienced the city itself, Turkey and all the contradictions and the multiple layers of meaning residing in this old city where all the remnants of it's past are crumbling away. As you know many Turks want to be a part of Europe and join the EC, but many others want keep the country's isolation.
> Ana
> 
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