[-empyre-] reply to Murat

[Murat Nemet-Nejat]

Chris, I apologize for my delayed response. I wanted to mull over your
observations before I responded. You touchon issues that are important to
me:

".... Poetry in oral and written forms has developed a history, we must
presume, because it appeals to deeply ingrained human sensibilities with
its often metrical presentation of language that pleases the reader’s
emotion, intellect, and imagination. A large audience might consume a
technologically complex digital poem produced as a video game, but that
text is going to be vastly different from something in the anthologies
heretofore published by W. W. Norton. Given a new set of stimuli—a slower
pace of presentation, materials absorbed as words and artwork—the typical
video-game audience might change its tastes, but I do not see those
radically different modes ever conjoining in titles that reach a high level
of popularity in mass culture...."

I think here you are making two very important points. First, perhaps
non-digital poetry and digital poetry are two completely different genres.
To apply the same word "poetry" to both is a misnomer and mis-charaterises
both of them. It leads to confusion and misunderstanding of either. I tend
to agree with that evaluation.

Second, the importance of speed in understanding the digital medium. Speed
is at the heart of everything that happens there. It is a component of its
value. On the other hand, speed is antithetical to poetry, particularly
reading it. That is I think the chasm that ultimately separates them.

" don’t know if you ever saw my follow-up book, *New Directions in Digital
Poetry*? (If not, I can send a pdf)). I present a couple of case studies
about games. The first paragraph of the book speaks fairly directly to your
concern, I think: ... Upon study they begin to understand

how digital poetry functions as something other than poetry

presented on a computer, involving processes beyond those used

by print-based writers, and that poetry made with computers has

unusual qualities – representing something inventive and worthy

of engagement."


Yes, I would appreciate it very much if you can send me a pdf copy of
*New* *Directions
in Digital Poetry*.

I think the last part of the quote is reaching a similar conclusion that
finally digital poetry is not like poetry of before but a completely new
genre in a new medium. The same process occurred at the invention of
photography when it was first consider a kind of "painting" usuping some of
the representational functions of the latter; but a completely new genre in
a new medium. That is what The Peripheral Space of Photography is all about.


",,,Digital works disappear for various reasons all the time. Some of my
all-time favorite works and tools are no longer accessible—so, yes, this is
a type of failure!..."

Yes, this is the kind of failure I am talking about --digital works'
Aechilles' heel, so to speak; as opposed to a technical or artistic failure
that can be corrected by tweaking or through practice.

"... The idea of perfection is in the eye of the beholder! "

You mean perfection is what we used to call beauty?☺

"Essentially, yes. For instance, with some of the MIDI work, I have a
database full of words or phrases, and when a note on the guitar is struck,
one of the many words or phrases is selected. No particular order is
imposed, & things like this can be programmed not to repeat. Thus the
experience will be different every time. There are a lot of pieces of e-lit
like this. Even if the overall structure of the work is fixed/functioning,
what happens within it isn’t."

I watched Eli [?] which I liked a lot and which I rthink is created through
the program MIDI. I would not call the effect of the way in which letters
and morsels of texts (sometimes "randomly" underlined) appearing on the
screen random; but rather I'd call them witty and surprising. I would not
call them random because the letters' and texts' appearances and movements
on the screen has a musical, syncopating effect which is the reverse of
random.

"

With regard to Cecil, there are usually ornate structures or outlines that
he & his groups work with. These are not written out like Mozart, but
certainly exist (as diagrams on paper, as you may have seen at the Whitney
exhibit?). If I’m working with a writing program (an algorithm that makes
poetry), or whatever, I can improvise in that I can enter spontaneous,
unpremeditated input, & the machine will do what it has been told to do
with it (maybe containing random elements, maybe not).
I’m sure I didn’t cover everything, but that’s what I have for now, OK, cf"

I can see the ambiguity in the argument. What you say is true about Cecil,
but also, I am told, each performance is different even with the same
outlines. You are doing something similar yourself by introducing
unpremeditated output. On the other hand is the "ornate structures" Cecil
starts with the same, as predetermined, as the programed machine you start
with.

Chris, thanks. You covered a lot.

Ciao,
Murat

On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 10:49 AM, Macon Reed <swapmeetproject at gmail.com>
wrote:

> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
> Hello,
> I have tried to write the moderator to find out how to unsubscribe to this
> list but haven't heard back, maybe I have the wrong email? There is so much
> great conversation here, I just have too much email to keep up with. If
> anyone can tell me how to unsubscribe, Id really appreciate it.
> Thanks,
> Macon
>
> On Monday, November 28, 2016, Funkhouser, Christopher T. <
> christopher.t.funkhouser at njit.edu> wrote:
>
>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
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